Wow I am so terrible at this game
For example, if my opponent pulls out a dwarven annihilator I am completely helpless. It just goes around killing all my guys and I can do nothing to stop it. I can try to stay out of range, but then that means I can't attack at all. Or I can try to rush the annihilator--but it can just push back and kill my guys. I have absolutely no clue how to handle it.
That's just one of my many problems. I've played about 20 games I think, and I've won exactly one.
How the heck do you play this game? I've seen the team-specific advice that floats around. But I seem to be missing something about basic tactics.
Do you guys do a lot of math figuring out your move and your opponent's possible moves? Is that what I need to be doing?
I could learn from my opponents' moves but without a game replay feature this is pretty much impossible. :(
Generally, often the Annihilator can be a liability before he is properly buffed up, and thus often the best time to try to take him down is as soon as possible. If you miss that window, learning to position your men to minimize the knock-back effect is the best way to brace for the attack.
There are team-specfic strategies that can be effective that I won't go into here.
Honestly though, the best way to learn to play against a team is to play as that team. Play as DW and see what situations frustrate and best you and your Annihilator, and then take good notes!
Have you checked out the newbie thread stickied up top? It's a great resource for new players. =)
Basic Skills
The first skill you need to learn is to answer the question "can your opponent kill something of yours for free". This involves math, unfortunately. =) Once you know when something on your team is going to die the next turn, you can do something about it! Move out of range, equip a shield or helm, kill the threatening unit, that kinda thing.
Next, you need to learn how to position your units so that you can get a free kill next turn. Essentially, the same thing as the first skill, but in reverse - you are telling your opponent "if you don't see my threat, or deal with it appropriately, you will lose a unit next turn".
After that, it's all tactics - how to force the other side not to heal by taking up all their AP dealing with another threat, threatening 2 units at the same time so that they can only save 1, having 2 different threats on the same enemy unit so that they spend all their AP defending and you get to advance for free - you'll learn those tactics soon enough, but to get you started, you must know the 2 main skills above, and they will serve you will for the remainder of your HA life. =)
If you want to look at replays, and read some of my musings on the intermediate level game, you can check my blog out at the link in my sig - it'll get you thinking, if nothing else!
Tabby kind of touched on this, but you need to learn to anticipate what your opponent can do on their turn. Typically, you'll want to keep your units away from the enemy for their turn, but if you know that they cant deal enough damage within 5 AP, then its not a problem to leave a unit close for that turn. An extremely helpful tool for this type of thing is Tabby's Hero Academy Damage Calculator. Theres a thread about it with a link to it somewhere around here, but now that I think of it, it might not be a bad idea for HIM to put a link in HIS sig. (Almost forgot :p)
I tend to think that introducing someone to the calculator too early is counter-productive... you need to know things like "move, move, attack, attack, stomp", much more than pure math calculations.. the calculator only really shines in odd situations where you have to deal with odd resistances, buffs, debuffs, and the interactions between them. Otherwise, you get overwhelmed calculating all possible angles and quit the game. =p
Still, here's a link : http://omvm.blogspot.sg/2012/12/oh-my-damage-calculators.html
If it overwhelms you, don't worry about it - come back later, it'll be there when you need it. =)
@Speusippus
As a recent newbie, I very much agree with Tabby's Basic Skills advice above.
For specific situations, like Annihilator, for example, go play it. I learned the most about how to play against dwarves, by playing as dwarves. Other people will show you how to defend against annilators and how to take them out. For example, with an archer, a scroll, and a fireball, you can easily remove an annihilator. Gradually, as you learn to position your units so that the annilator doesn't disrupt your formations dangerously, you'll learn that that a scroll and a fireball usually is too much to pay for a naked annihilator... and the annihilator will be dead soon unless a paladin is nearby, so spend your scrolls and fireballs on the paladin... and move on to the next learning....
But again, start with Tabby's basic skills which are the same as the basic skills for chess but do involve initially a little math: Can he take any of my units for free? Can I take any of his for free?
Keep playing and don't give up. Challenge the people here and you'll learn fast. I've been playing awhile and still feel like a newbie at times. Especially against the strong players here.
The Annihilator can be intimidating in the beginning, but your opponent has to be careful using him. Without proper support units, the Annihilator is actually pretty squishy...
In a recent teaching game, I actually lectured someone that traded a runemetal wizard plus a scroll for a naked annihilator. That is a truly terrible trade for Council. Council only has 2 scrolls, and without them its a *** to kill those fully geared grenadiers and shotgunners. Moreover, without runemetal, Council isnt necessarily all that scary.
In fact, most good players are skeptical that naked offensive unit + scroll is a fair trade for a naked annihilator. Its close, and it might make sense in some circumstances, but thinking its a great trade that should be done automatically is just wrong.
In fact, most good players are skeptical that naked offensive unit + scroll is a fair trade for a naked annihilator. Its close, and it might make sense in some circumstances, but thinking its a great trade that should be done automatically is just wrong.
unless its a really unique scenario your basically telling your opponent that you give up since a scroll is worth alot.
I think if I had a full army against an annihilator, an engineer and one other unit (maybe even just a valkyrie) I couldn't win.
He can just kill anything that approaches!
I just don't get it.
Yes, he pretty much can kill anyone if he really tries. But if you position yourself well and keep his shields down with harassment attacks, you can make it difficult for him to survive long. Also keep in mind that one of the Dwarves' few achilles heels is the fact that they have absolutely no way to stomp KOed units remotely. As long as you aren't putting your most valuable units on the front lines, you can get some decent trades when he moves other units in to stomp. Then, when his own cover has been eliminated, set yourself up for the counter attack.
I realize this is all very theoretical -- if you can find yourself a good teaching match with a dwarf-savvy vet (I'm swamped, else I'd offer), they should be able to show you some pointers.
You know, I have severe problems with DW too... >.>
Its can be a huge problem to face a geared, bubbled Annihilator backed by a pally if you have a very small team out yourself. You more or less need to have a team out to do the kind of things Trip is talking about, not get one unit in offensive position at a time. Of course, it also helps to have a jar, scroll, etc.. in your hand as well, but you can keep an annihilator at bay with a well deployed team.
I'm not going to say its necessarily easy, since even a deployed team can sometimes be picked apart if the annhilator has momentum and you are too spread out, dont have enough healers, etc... However, often the side with the annhilator will be gambling when they do this, as an annihilator is often easy prey if its left in forward position and you have the right item(s).
With enough healers and a properly deployed team, that +3 annhilator may not be all that much more use than a +3 grenadier. It could even be less useful, depending on the situation. That is why I will gladly gear an annihilator if I get one early, but will definitely not save gear for him if he is buried in the deck.
But as others have said, the easy answer is too start playing Dwarves and watch how you lose, whenever you do.
That is why I will gladly gear an annihilator if I get one early, but will definitely not save gear for him if he is buried in the deck.
Ok, here is a question. I have kind of stopped swording the annihilator early, especially if it is clear that my opponent is experienced. My thinking is that if I sword him, he becomes worth a scroll kill, and he's easy prey for even most naked units (with a scroll)... So I use him more as gunner support and defense until the scrolls are gone (unless a good disruption or trade opportunity presents itself).
Is this wrong?
Another question is fully-gearing. I don't think I ever fully gear an annihilator, because I am really happy when my opponent does, because then I don't have to worry about how expensive the kill is. Is that wrong? Are there tactics that get good value from a fully geared annihilator?
That is why I will gladly gear an annihilator if I get one early, but will definitely not save gear for him if he is buried in the deck.
Ok, here is a question. I have kind of stopped swording the annihilator early, especially if it is clear that my opponent is experienced. My thinking is that if I sword him, he becomes worth a scroll kill, and he's easy prey for even most naked units (with a scroll)... So I use him more as gunner support and defense until the scrolls are gone (unless a good disruption or trade opportunity presents itself).
Is this wrong?
Another question is fully-gearing. I don't think I ever fully gear an annihilator, because I am really happy when my opponent does, because then I don't have to worry about how expensive the kill is. Is that wrong? Are there tactics that get good value from a fully geared annihilator?
No that all seems like sound thinking. I think Hiruma generally likes to use his annihilators exactly that way, as scroll bait. I sometimes do this as well. However, a geared annihilator can be very deadly in the right circumstances, if you can keep him safe. And with proper support (including engineer and pally) he isnt really that vulnerable. And without gear, he isnt so much, really. I like to try and gear my annihilators, but I will definitely wait if it seems very dangerous, if I have lots of offensive options or what not.
Razcrux made a very fantastic cheat sheet for the damage by all the factions ...here it is
http://chedal.org/files/HA-damage-lookup-1.0.pdf
Also thanks to some of these guys ive been able to somewhat stand vs dwarfs so if u want send me a couple of challenges and i can show u how to combat them.
art is correct. I think i havent equipped an annhilator for several months now. I think you gain more of equipping the gunners, grenadiers and paladins then him. But it aint bad to equip him either, its good. Maybe more of a personal taste then right or wrong tho.
art is correct. I think i havent equipped an annhilator for several months now. I think you gain more of equipping the gunners, grenadiers and paladins then him. But it aint bad to equip him either, its good. Maybe more of a personal taste then right or wrong tho.
Thanks, Hiruma. Good to know I have company.
One of the strange things about HA is the secret nature of top level games. Because games take so much work to share, the average player knows very little about how the most successful players play. Compared to chess, for example, where anyone who wants can spend as much effort as they like studying top level play.
We've discussed this a lot, but one more thought. Imagine, if we had a game sharing mechanism, what ArtNJ could do with his guides. To illustrate his points he could link to key moments in actual games... This would very much help people see how his descriptions affect actual move decisions.
Yea doing the math helps a lot. Eventually you memorize most of the math and don't need a calculator. Just save all your consumables for the annihilator because the dwarves have airtight defense when played right. Do a suicide run to kill him if necessary.
HA username: darkozl