Upcoming Changes
NERRFFF RUNNNTSSSS.
I just had my first DW game in a while (a whole bunch of TFs challenged me after the Vic game and I'm getting splatted, how embarrassing >.>)
DW.. ARGH. ARGGHGHG.
My hate knows no depths. =-_-"=
NERRFFF RUNNNTSSSS.
Kinda harsh, doncha think? I mean, haven't they already been nerfed vertically and esthetically?
Harsh is too good for those... people.
=-_-"= GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRrrr
Im willing to guess the balance patch will come out in.. may maybe? :)
Maybe they could confirm if/when it went into submission at least.
Sniper's fine as it is. As with Heavy.
Do you play as any of the other teams? Or is TF the only team you play?
I only have two teams, always choose random. I just got the game a month ago - and I find that the other teams should have some nerfs. Don't bash on me if I find Dwarves and Dark Elves OP. New experience - but yes. I play one other team. And TF is not the only team I play.
DE OP??!!
dude. <.~ DE are Te second worst team right now, and in fact DE v TF is the second worst matchup in the game (apart from SL v TF). Perhaps you've just been meeting experienced DE players? DE has been around for a while, after all. :)
Yeah, perhaps. Even when I get in the swing of how to play as Council and TF2, 90% of the time I lose to Dark Elves. I dunno - the game's fun - but I'm always on the losing end. But I'd like to stick with the original topic - and my original opinion, that Sniper and Heavy are fine as they are. I'd like to hear (or read) if someone can prove me otherwise, no sarcasm intended.
There will never be "proof" that Sniper or Heavy are not fine as they are, since, by the way we define it, units aren't OP, teams are. Among recorded games (in the league) TF2 wins significantly more games than it loses.
So the question is how to we bring TF2 closer to 50%, while maintaining TF2's "flavor" and making playing with and against TF2 as fun as possible. Many ideas have been batted around.
Sniper was very often cited as an area of improvement. I think because they seem unfair since they are out of harm's way.
A number of people talked about Heavy too. I don't understand one that as much--they haven't got any resistance so they are pretty easy to kill--but since I agree that TF2 needs a nerf, I am not going to complain.
DE OP??!!
dude. <.~ DE are Te second worst team right now, and in fact DE v TF is the second worst matchup in the game (apart from SL v TF). Perhaps you've just been meeting experienced DE players? DE has been around for a while, after all. :)
What about SL v DW? On the shaolin map?!?
Dude the sniper is the best part it makes un-experimced players wasting there turns by taking 5 ap to kill a unit. Or was that just me? Lol but anyway the only time you need the sniper is when you need some serious damage to a paricular unit. And only sometimes is it in the line of fire of the sniper. And if its not on your line of sight then move oh wait then they will only do 100 damage. Do you see where i am getting at? Besides tf2 has 7 units i dont think the sniper is the one that needs to be changed. I agree on hp reduction on the heavy. But where i would go to is reducing the effects of linking power from the medic. Just a bit. Or reducing melee damage on some units. See they all have positive side effects. But none negitive of the units. And they need to. But they shouldnt mess with damage, hp, or mobility of the units.
Soooo... what you're saying is that they need new hats?
Lol they have enough hats. But i told you lower melee fo some units, reduce the damage givien for medics to link power. Just small tiny stuff like that i think would do the trick. I mean all units have positive side effects. They should have some negitives too. I mean the medic shouldnt regenerate hp when he heals some one. It copies the dwarves paladin and for what purpose would they do that? They need a lack of healers to make the game interesting. If they have great strength they need a great weakness. I mean the only time they need to copy another unit is if its necessary. In this case its not.
Side-note: TF2 has 9 units. Not the previously stated 7.
I just lost a brutally-long 32 day, 115 round Shaolin vs Dark Elves match because I didn't realize the Monk's debuff vanishes when you attack a Crystal. Obviously it's my fault for not knowing that, but it seems to me the Monk's debuff should either:
-
A) Stick with the previously-debuffed unit after attacking a Crystal
- B) Debuff the Crystal 25% if the Crystal is still above 75%.
I don't really care which happens, but the fact that the Monk has the worst of both worlds right now is just rubbing salt in the wound of an already pretty sad unit. (Pending the 1.4.2 balance changes, of course.)
I was the opponent in this match. I found the debuff behavior unexpected as well. I would have expected the debuff to stay on my priestess; indeed I thought I was losing. I would think the debuff to crystal would be impractical - for units it behaves as if there is 1 debuff that "jumps" from unit to unit. How would this go for crystal? Would it get its 25% back? For units, you could heal the unit back up once the debuff is gone, but for Crystals... I'd say option A would be most predictable and understandable.
But what I found much more in that match, is that Shaolin is really not fun to play against.
Staying in range of several SL units is instant suicide. Move in, KO, stomp, move out -> that's 4 AP already, if the SL player keeps health up and stays in formation, I will need more than 2AP to KO, which pretty much means I have to suicide in order to attack the formation. The best I could come up with was to build my own defensive formation. But while doing that, SteveZissou kept applying poisoner and monk debuffs which is a good strategy, but it has the side effect of pretty much making any offense on my part impossible: If I want to push my entire formation forward, my front lines will be eliminated without sweat. I might as well run them in a woodchipper. On the other hand, my formation is solid as well, so any attack by my opponent resembles the woodchipper analogy just as much. Any change in the stand-off was started by an error on either side.
I had fun playing SteveZissou, because he's a really good player, but I would have had more fun in any other matchup.
MMM nice ill chalenge SteveZissou for l2p with shaolin then!! :P
They just tweeted that it's in Apple review.
Looks like we can expect Apple to approve the update next Thursdayish, given current review time averages. Fingers-crossed Robot will have the Steam version(s) ready to go by then and we'll get some v1.4.2 action.
Hopefully this will reinvigorate the player base. I have precisely one match going right now as I've just given up trying to win with the Shaolin in their current state. I'm also curious to try out the buffed Wraith with the Elves.
But what I found much more in that match, is that Shaolin is really not fun to play against.
Staying in range of several SL units is instant suicide. Move in, KO, stomp, move out -> that's 4 AP already, if the SL player keeps health up and stays in formation, I will need more than 2AP to KO, which pretty much means I have to suicide in order to attack the formation. The best I could come up with was to build my own defensive formation. But while doing that, SteveZissou kept applying poisoner and monk debuffs which is a good strategy, but it has the side effect of pretty much making any offense on my part impossible: If I want to push my entire formation forward, my front lines will be eliminated without sweat. I might as well run them in a woodchipper. On the other hand, my formation is solid as well, so any attack by my opponent resembles the woodchipper analogy just as much. Any change in the stand-off was started by an error on either side.
I had fun playing SteveZissou, because he's a really good player, but I would have had more fun in any other matchup.
Yep. See numerous "Make Shaolin Fun" threads. IMO, encouraging shaolin to move will be the key. Let's hope the update helps.
Yeah. Let's hope situations like this are fixed in the patch.
http://i.imgur.com/wHQJEBHl.jpg?1
That is AWESOME. You need to preserve this screenshot in the gallery for all posterity!
Thanks Robot! Found this at Xmas and been playing on my iPad since. Best game ever or this device and I've told lots of people so. Are you coming to Android soon?
We'd better hope so! "Splitting a gut" doesn't sound like a very safe thing to do ;)
We'd better hope so! "Splitting a gut" doesn't sound like a very safe thing to do ;)
Yeah, I agree, but everytime I bring up a gut-buff at home my wife complains my GI is already OP and actually needs a nerf. I'm sure she just doesn't like the implication that her meals are IMBA.
Thanks Robot! Found this at Xmas and been playing on my iPad since. Best game ever or this device and I've told lots of people so. Are you coming to Android soon?
say you don't know maybe neutrino from uber @planetary annihilation? xD
I want to expand on my dislike of playing against shaolin. Example situation: wizard, who has a bit native magic defense, on physical defense tile, in range of damaged windblade and damaged shadow, while damaged poisoner needs to move 1AP to hurt my unit.
I like to calculate possible damage to my units, and determine whether they will either live, or only be KO'd, or KO-stomped, to determine whether I'm just wasting units. But with all the different damage modifiers in this situation, the combo bonuses which are subject to the damage modifiers, the changing of the damage modifiers halfway through the turn due to the poisoner, the possibility of the use of combo potions, and the possibility that a runemetal is deployed during the opponent's turn, the required level of analysis is just too high for me to bother. And this is even without a Monk present...
To add to that, I realize that the shadow-unit steal is not a super-strong ability (for a super unit...), but I am really annoyed when my units get stolen. The DE phantoms are so weak that they are mostly ignorable, but you really can't let an opponent steal and heal a proper unit, or at least you can't make a habit of it. Hence, if I decide to trade a unit, I have to also take into account spending at least 2AP of my next turn to KO and then stomp this traded unit. Further increasing the number of options to consider planning THIS turn. Blech! No fun!
Situations similar to this tend to happen every now and then in every game. But with Shaolin, this all results in me just doing a rough guestimate, which ends up being wrong every now and then, leading to me being annoyed by the fact that my guestimate was wrong, and giving my iPad the finger...
I want a feature where I can select NOT to play against this team!
I want to expand on my dislike of playing against shaolin. Example situation: wizard, who has a bit native magic defense, on physical defense tile, in range of damaged windblade and damaged shadow, while damaged poisoner needs to move 1AP to hurt my unit.
I like to calculate possible damage to my units, and determine whether they will either live, or only be KO'd, or KO-stomped, to determine whether I'm just wasting units. But with all the different damage modifiers in this situation, the combo bonuses which are subject to the damage modifiers, the changing of the damage modifiers halfway through the turn due to the poisoner, the possibility of the use of combo potions, and the possibility that a runemetal is deployed during the opponent's turn, the required level of analysis is just too high for me to bother. And this is even without a Monk present...
To add to that, I realize that the shadow-unit steal is not a super-strong ability (for a super unit...), but I am really annoyed when my units get stolen. The DE phantoms are so weak that they are mostly ignorable, but you really can't let an opponent steal and heal a proper unit, or at least you can't make a habit of it. Hence, if I decide to trade a unit, I have to also take into account spending at least 2AP of my next turn to KO and then stomp this traded unit. Further increasing the number of options to consider planning THIS turn. Blech! No fun!
Situations similar to this tend to happen every now and then in every game. But with Shaolin, this all results in me just doing a rough guestimate, which ends up being wrong every now and then, leading to me being annoyed by the fact that my guestimate was wrong, and giving my iPad the finger...
I want a feature where I can select NOT to play against this team!
The math issue is a completely legitimate point, but in my opinion its not any more noticeable against the Shaolin. I mean, playing against Dwarves I've used a calculator when its worth it to me, and I still dont have all Jar damage memorized, so I've used a calculator for that as well. And meat, rage and all that? Thats a calculation nightmare as well. Worse, sometimes I do calculate, but forget something, like a pally buff, or the rounding up effect, and the consequences can be huge.
As far as playing against the Shaolin, they can certainly be very annoying when they get in a good position, but how does that differ from a bubbled +3 grenadier with pally support in the mid-field, or worse, on the sword tile? It doesnt, not really. Most factions can feel intimidating/annoying/impossible to deal with when they are set up right, and you are not.
Shaolin, like Tribe, has a fundamental flaw in the extreme weakness of its AOE, and this will be true post update as well since Robot ignored out preference to fix the Windblade and buffed the poisoner instead. So the Shaolin will feel awkward and helpless at times as well.
Hate those little bomb tossing dwarves...... except when I use them so nerf them only when I'm not using them yea that should work :)
The math issue is a completely legitimate point, but in my opinion its not any more noticeable against the Shaolin. I mean, playing against Dwarves I've used a calculator when its worth it to me, and I still dont have all Jar damage memorized, so I've used a calculator for that as well. And meat, rage and all that? Thats a calculation nightmare as well. Worse, sometimes I do calculate, but forget something, like a pally buff, or the rounding up effect, and the consequences can be huge.
I do take a calculator at times in other matches. But the thing is, for any other team, I can lump all units that do a certain amount of damage in one "bin"; i.e. it doesn't matter whether that naked archer or that sworded wizard hits me. The warrior and the witch do the same damage. The necro and the void monk also. Also, it is typically a bad idea to move unit1, hit with unit1, move unit2, hit with unit2; had you just used unit 1 you would have had one more hit! But with the Shaolin, this no longer holds true. So suddenly, the number of possibilities to consider becomes huge in some instances. For the example above:
move poisoner, hit with poisoner x4
move poisoner, hit with poisoner x3, hit with windblade
move poisoner, hit with poisoner x2, hit with windblade x2
move poisoner, hit with poisoner x2, hit with windblade, hit with shadow
move poisoner, hit with poisoner, hit with windblade, hit with poisoner, hit with poisoner
move poisoner, hit with poisoner, hit with windblade, hit with poisoner, hit with windblade
move poisoner, hit with poisoner, hit with windblade, hit with poisoner, hit with shadow
move poisoner, hit with poisoner, hit with windblade, hit with shadow, [do something with the remaining AP]
This is not even a complete list for the different outcomes possible for just the options that start with moving the poisoner. Then you add all the options that start with the windblade, and the ones that start with the shadow, and then add in the possibility of a combo potion... At least in this case you can ignore the bamboo, since the shadow can rez-steal it, which is most often the better option for the SL player. But you can imagine that situations exist where bamboo needs to be taken into account as well.
It pretty much results in me not even bothering to take the calculator anymore. It's not worth the hassle.
Do you play as any of the other teams? Or is TF the only team you play?
These are not the nerfs you're looking for. (Waves hand.)