Shaolin are 4-26 in League Play
Oh and the Shadow healing is also a nice idea! I was sort of surprised when I couldn't heal with him. However I'd rather see buffs first to the Monk, Windblades and Taoist (in that order of priority) than one to the Shadow. That said, a fourth healer would also help to offset their poor healing options... Hmmm
5-27 now. I still think this is a bit misleading...when set up right they can be hella annoying. Do you trade gunner + drill for a ruined poisoner if they get to keep the gunner? It can be quite paralyzing. (I put a helm on the gunner...probably a mistake, that poisoner is pissing me off!)
Oh and the Shadow healing is also a nice idea! I was sort of surprised when I couldn't heal with him. However I'd rather see buffs first to the Monk, Windblades and Taoist (in that order of priority) than one to the Shadow. That said, a fourth healer would also help to offset their poor healing options... Hmmm
I don't have the most experience with Shaolin, but I'd want to disagree with this suggestion. Shadow is hearty without equipment, and very tough with it. The ability to rez enemy units and then heal them would make him the one-stop-shop for healing, probably driving the Taoist out of what's supposed to be his role. (Of course, this could be mitigated by the Shadow's weaker healing.)
We might find ourselves wishing the Shadow could heal because of his 3-range. I've seen others proposing that the Taoist's heal range be increased to 3, and I support that as well. The Shadow is good as he is; let him keep his role. The Taoists are the healers, let's make them able to heal.
5-27 now. I still think this is a bit misleading...when set up right they can be hella annoying. Do you trade gunner + drill for a ruined poisoner if they get to keep the gunner? It can be quite paralyzing. (I put a helm on the gunner...probably a mistake, that poisoner is pissing me off!)
sorry Art, but this the way that Shaolin win, you KO something and keep it paralyzed while you move into a stronger position. In this game it's not that the Shaolin are powerful, but rather that you had at one point only paladins and engineers and I'd manage to cover both your attack and assault tile... Tactically I was able to gain some good position which should, in my opinion, result in a strong position. Forcing the opponent to either sacrifice men, or consumables, to recover.
:-)
5-27 now. I still think this is a bit misleading...when set up right they can be hella annoying. Do you trade gunner + drill for a ruined poisoner if they get to keep the gunner? It can be quite paralyzing. (I put a helm on the gunner...probably a mistake, that poisoner is pissing me off!)
sorry Art, but this the way that Shaolin win, you KO something and keep it paralyzed while you move into a stronger position. In this game it's not that the Shaolin are powerful, but rather that you had at one point only paladins and engineers and I'd manage to cover both your attack and assault tile... Tactically I was able to gain some good position which should, in my opinion, result in a strong position. Forcing the opponent to either sacrifice men, or consumables, to recover.
:-)
Yes, its my belief I should have given you a gunner or engineer + drill to get rid of the runed poisoner. But it was just hard to pull the trigger on that -- especially the engineer. Games like this one are why I think Shaolin cant possibly be 5-27 bad. They are not good, and you may still lose, but in the hands of a skilled player with decent draws they can put up a great fight.
Against Dwarves, the grenadiers are key, because the shotgunners get outranged by the poisoners.
Well I did get a perfect opening, and I'd like to think I somewhat get how to play the new team. But winning with Shaolin is still terribly fickle. I did make one mistake already, I think, but I'll only find out later. The game is still early and I do dread the second half of the game once losses accumulate on both sides; that's when the team can easily fall apart because the monks (which I haven't deployed on purpose) are all I have left and they suck way more than what you have left (annahilator and grenadiers...). AOE is the pleague and you've still got lots of it later. So my only hope, I feel, is to press for the win not and keep pressure up rather than wait for the end game.
Move 3 monks will make a huge difference. But hopefully tf2 and dwarves get less splash. And maybe some other tweaks. Once the teams all get some balance changes, assuming they are good ones, I'll feel more confident playing Shaolin in the league cause right now I really don't considering how stacked against you it is when you face Tf2 and Dw. Dark elves are okay because their team special: extra life healing, isn't a big deal to you if you can get combos. Void monks are the only real threat and you can eventually pin them and space guys out enough to avoid splash. The splash areas of the tf2 and DW grenadiers are 9 squares, and that's way harder to deal with than the triangle of the VM
From balancing other games, the general goal should be that each team has a 45-55% chance of beating all other teams. Some combinations can be a bit tougher than others, but it should always remain as close to 50/50 as possible.
its not that Shaolin can't win, but rather that the win chance is clearly not 50/50. Certainly not when you play similar skilled league players. I'd say that Shaolin is around 40/60 against when facing a player who understands how to beat them. And maybe even as bad as 35/65 when you face DW and TF2. But this is all guess work without proper actual statistics.
if you want real league data, league players need a reason to play with them. Loosing rating is not fun when you've worked hard for it. If the game actually had an inbuilt rating system (like Outwitters) it would be a lot easier to get relevant data at different levels of skill. We might see then that Shaolin does progressively worse the lower a persons overall score. They are not an easy team to play. Similar to DE and Tribe, so I would expect them to do better in higher divisions than lower ones. Again, just a hunch.
Art, of these wins and losses, how many of them are from players above 1300 or 1400? If the games are mainly in the lower numbers it would explain why the win ratio is not a bit higher.
I love how everyone is constantly asking poor Art about league statistics. Shout out to ArtNJ!! :D
From balancing other games, the general goal should be that each team has a 45-55% chance of beating all other teams. Some combinations can be a bit tougher than others, but it should always remain as close to 50/50 as possible.
its not that Shaolin can't win, but rather that the win chance is clearly not 50/50. Certainly not when you play similar skilled league players. I'd say that Shaolin is around 40/60 against when facing a player who understands how to beat them. And maybe even as bad as 35/65 when you face DW and TF2. But this is all guess work without proper actual statistics.
if you want real league data, league players need a reason to play with them. Loosing rating is not fun when you've worked hard for it. If the game actually had an inbuilt rating system (like Outwitters) it would be a lot easier to get relevant data at different levels of skill. We might see then that Shaolin does progressively worse the lower a persons overall score. They are not an easy team to play. Similar to DE and Tribe, so I would expect them to do better in higher divisions than lower ones. Again, just a hunch.
Art, of these wins and losses, how many of them are from players above 1300 or 1400? If the games are mainly in the lower numbers it would explain why the win ratio is not a bit higher.
I dont know that, as the database is not set up to display anything like that; we would need to get a data export and manually look through it. We set up performance ratings for each team to be our double check on raw win-loss numbers, and I'm happy to stick with that. Unfortunately, we do need more than 33 games for them to mean anything. We havent bothered to add the formula for calculationg performance ratings for Shaolin yet, but I suppose we may as well see what it looks like, even though its early.
Actually, I did just figure out the data export thing. It looks like the Shaolin players are a random assortment of folks mostly around 1250 rating or so, with some a little higher or lower. But this isnt really a shock, as the newer players in the League tend to be more active. The 5-27 is mostly somewhat new or modestly rated players playing somewhat new or modestly rated players.
Unfortunately, the top 10 is not real active in general these days. MonkeyWarlock is the only new top 10 in a long while, and he is taking a break for a bit.
Perhaps the taoist (or the monk?) should exude a paladin-like aura that negates AOE damage. That would balance things out against dwrves without entirely negating AOE, which would seem a bit much.
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How can I join this league you guys are talking about. I'm looking for a way to find stronger competitors...I'm sick of beating up on randoms. Thanks!
Its at Robotentertainmentfans.com
But hopefully tf2 and dwarves get less splash.
just abit curious, but what numbers on the splash do you have in mind?
Shaolin hit a bad patch...even for them...5-35 now.
Someone defend the Shaolin! They arent *that* bad!
Shaolin hit a bad patch...even for them...5-35 now.
Someone defend the Shaolin! They arent *that* bad!
Actually, I suspect they hit a "good patch" when it looked like the gap was closing.
I think its 1:7 or a 15% win ratio. I hate to admit this, but I'm beginning to agree with ChrisTheHero:
SHAOLIN R WURS TEEM EVAHZ
(paraphrased of course, but that's how I always heard him in my head)
Shaolin hit a bad patch...even for them...5-35 now.
Someone defend the Shaolin! They arent *that* bad!
i doubt even the dwarves had such bad stats lol.
I couldnt read it somewhere else, but I just recognized.. the Monk can only reduce one unit at the same time the max hp. That's actually quite lame.
High HP Unit --> low healing Healder
middle dmg unit --> no range
special ability --> lowers HP of one specific unit
well, I have to say even the engineer from the dwarves is more useful.
Anyway, it looks quite bad for the Shaolin in the league one of the games is mine.. my bad.
I couldnt read it somewhere else, but I just recognized.. the Monk can only reduce one unit at the same time the max hp. That's actually quite lame.
High HP Unit --> low healing Healder
middle dmg unit --> no range
special ability --> lowers HP of one specific unit
well, I have to say even the engineer from the dwarves is more useful.
Anyway, it looks quite bad for the Shaolin in the league one of the games is mine.. my bad.
Yeah, noticed this in a recent match and was quite confused when the debuff would switch between two enemies.
Okay read all of it now, I really-really like EAyopa 's idea of making combos persistent between turns! Having them fade one spinning combo icon each turn is a great idea! Just this change, and monks to move 3 and the team might actually be good enough that I'd risk playing them in the league again ;-)