Shaolin 7-54 Now
Getting slaughtered by all factions.
I just posted on facebook, maybe someone else can post on Twitter -- since Robot doesnt seem to want to talk here, but still responds to posts in those places from time to time.
Amusingly there was a post on facebook yesterday complaining about balance...Robot said basically, "What issue are you seeing? We are monitoring our data and our forum, and constantly looking at balance." So they are *monitoring* this forum, just not speaking on it anymore. It bugged me a bit that they would respond to a post on balance without acknowledging that they are aware of a serious problem...
Getting slaughtered by all factions.
I just posted on facebook, maybe someone else can post on Twitter -- since Robot doesnt seem to want to talk here, but still responds to posts in those places from time to time.
Amusingly there was a post on facebook yesterday complaining about balance...Robot said basically, "What issue are you seeing? We are monitoring our data and our forum, and constantly looking at balance." So they are *monitoring* this forum, just not speaking on it anymore. It bugged me a bit that they would respond to a post on balance without acknowledging that they are aware of a serious problem...
Plus ever-so ONE!!!
They responded to my facebook post ...with a (being charitable) mistake.
Any plans to fix the Shaolin, which are dramatically inferior to every other team?
Like · .
Hero Academy We're watching balance numbers on the back end and in discussions on our forums with the REF League players and will make balance adjustments as we feel they're necessary.
They have not said one word on this forum or directly to the League on these issues about Shaolin balance. If that part of their post is a mistake, I wonder if they are really watching internal balance numbers on the back end? I dont really want to get into it on Facebook for the world to see so I'll probably let it go...but feel free to add your comments!
They responded to my facebook post ...with a (being charitable) mistake.
Any plans to fix the Shaolin, which are dramatically inferior to every other team?
Like · .
Hero Academy We're watching balance numbers on the back end and in discussions on our forums with the REF League players and will make balance adjustments as we feel they're necessary.
They have not said one word on this forum or directly to the League on these issues about Shaolin balance. If that part of their post is a mistake, I wonder if they are really watching internal balance numbers on the back end? I dont really want to get into it on Facebook for the world to see so I'll probably let it go...but feel free to add your comments!
Apparently they are Silent Partners in this feedback arrangement. If they would just utilize us by harnessing our vim and vigor! We would be delighted to test say, this situation or that match-up.
I don't understand their unwillingness to facilitate the discussion this time around.
In a word... Baffling.
They responded to my facebook post ...with a (being charitable) mistake.
Any plans to fix the Shaolin, which are dramatically inferior to every other team?
Like · .
Hero Academy We're watching balance numbers on the back end and in discussions on our forums with the REF League players and will make balance adjustments as we feel they're necessary.
They have not said one word on this forum or directly to the League on these issues about Shaolin balance. If that part of their post is a mistake, I wonder if they are really watching internal balance numbers on the back end? I dont really want to get into it on Facebook for the world to see so I'll probably let it go...but feel free to add your comments!
I agree Robot didn't talk much the last days / week .., but I am sure that Robot is doing something, specially after their regulary balance changes, I am sure they care.
RE has always listened to the forum and i believe they will make a fix to the shaolin...just no sure how lol maybe bump winblader to 250 damage?
Give'em some more AOE damage and give the monk more mobility or improve the potion. Boom! Done.. easy fix!
This is getting ridiculous that I feel obligated to post on these forums.
I'm a fairly active player of Hero Academy and it shames me to see how imbalanced the new team is. The combo idea just doesn't work. You rarely find yourself in a postition to use it. Shaolin also gets destroyed by dwarves, tf2...... Well they actually get destroyed by every team come to think of it :P
7-54...... Wow that is absolute ***.
So how to fix shaolin? Well I've been on a lot of threads and I have seen many good tweak suggestions. It angers me that robot hasn't acknowledge any of these. I personally think that the shaolin team bonus is what makes it terrible. I mean, has anyone really had success using this combo thing? I certainly had not and hadn't seen others, except maybe in shaolin vs shaolin, use it good.
Well i wanted to update that I am now 3-24 as shaolin, I am getting better-_-
Art basically u want them to admit they messed up shoalin ... which they did lol .. but they would never admit to that ... they are probably figuring out how to help them out because there are a lot of different ways (increase healing, increase mobility, increase stregnth of units, etc etc etc) it takes them quite a while to create patches so they dont want to have an unbalanced team n patch it to make an overbalanced team .. that wud require more work for them to create ANOTHER patch to fix that
also keep in mind that shaolin isnt the only problem ... months later tf2 is still considered highly overpowered, dwarves are the most annoying team to play against, and the shaolin map is completely broken (if u havent played on the shaolin map against dwarves, consider yourself lucky)
the combo idea is stupid and silly when u think about it ... shoalin has no high powered units so they create this "combo system" so basically they cancel eachother out anyway ... its not exactly the tribe rage or the extra AP of tf2 which are actual benefits on top of having super powered units
^^
Dwarves are really annoying on that shaolin map!
And yes, you basically restated what I said, the como bonus doesn't work.
Thank you, Captain Obvious!
i didnt restate what u said at all, you said there are few opportunites...wen in reality there are enough if u understand how to use them (feel free to challenge me) im saying the problem is also the stregnth
writch another useless post you're on a roll!
All I know is that I have 8 Shaolin games going right now, started them all right when it was released, and they are still ongoing because I have to work positioning and be overly cautious to avoid getting totally man-handled except in the 2 games that are Shaolin vs Shaolin.
I won't be starting another until the patch and even then I'll give it some thought and maybe only play one to test it out. At this moment I'm pissed I paid $2, even though that's really nothing haha..
I know this is unrelated, but is the Wraith still unable to spawn on KO'd units? DE had enough trouble without this issue in my opinion (and I still remember that ~40% win for DE v DW in league play, regardless of going first or 2nd).
In regards to the Shaolin, my experience with them has been limited but in general they seemed to lack a real powerful punch, apart from the dragon and the poisoner.
A lot has changed since I was playing more regularly, I'm surprised TF2 is considered OP now.
*embarassed* ... Guys? I need DE v SL help. I keep getting pwned. >.>
The wraith still can't spawn on enemy units, even though Robot submitted the patch to Apple on the 29th.
since when is it more annoying to face dwarves then TR? :O
*world gone mad*
*embarassed* ... Guys? I need DE v SL help. I keep getting pwned. >.>
and this proves that shaolin aint useless atleast. which unit do you have problems against?
*embarassed* ... Guys? I need DE v SL help. I keep getting pwned. >.>
I have the opposite problem. When I play as SL vs DE, I'm getting pushed hard and fast and lose most of these matchups when the following happens: +3 VM in first few turns on SL side of the map. Unless I've gotten lucky to draw some heavy firepower dragon and poisoner. I've got my back to the wall the entire match with the VM menace. If you feel scrilly just deploy a priestess in the back "just in case" you don't have a soul harvest in hand. OH and even if I do manage to take down the VM. I have to watch out for rez scroll, or replacement by next +3 VM... I only have two dragons. I did manage to claw back from this situation utilizing SL turle strategy and the combo mechanic actually helped me win that one since it was defensive game from the get go.
Also artnj, I put up a win for the SL in the league. Don't worry folks it will be accompanied by many more in the losses column too.
Void monks... fully upgraded AoE dealing hit & run VM the taoist just can't keep up with the damage.
Void monks... fully upgraded AoE dealing hit & run VM the taoist just can't keep up with the damage.
This. I'm all ears to any valid counter tactics for lowly Shaolin players such as myself. Other than praying your hand is full of firepower and their hand is absent of rezzing spells. The taoist takes this pummeling till he sees stars, and nearby units fall as fast. Tabby_nat - feel free to send me a DE challenge and I'll play SL so you can try this out and win fairly easily.
Shaolin only do well if they get set-up in the mid-field. Yes, they have defensive skills against divers/traders, but this avails nothing if they are subject to AOE harassment, which Void Monks can deliver. So Shaolin need to own the mid-field. Razcrux achieved this against me by burning a dragon and bamboo to take whatever I had on the sword tile in between the two crystals in the middle. With a poisoner or Shadow on the sword tile himself, he was able to own the mid-field for a long time. It was incredibly annoying for the longest time. I did win after much suffering, but the lesson was clear to me -- its hard to pay too much to own the mid-field if your Shaolin.
Shaolin are not good right now, because its just too hard to develop this kind of situation.
I have currently really big problems with snipers... some player just give their sniper in the back, give 2 units before it and I can't reach him, but I also can't protect my units then.. the bamboo, doesnt hold for long. any ideas? As ArtNJ said, they need to own the mid field, but how do you want go / "turtleing" there when this happens..
*embarassed* ... Guys? I need DE v SL help. I keep getting pwned. >.>
As the others have said, Void Monk harass is very strong. Shaolin are crippled by AOE. Also, most Shaolin burst damage is magic (poisoner, dragon). So, a void monk with a hat is pretty strong.
Also, the necro does a pretty good job of negating the Shadow. Normally, Shadow gives an AP advantage, but against necro he doesn't (shaolin kills, range stomp/rez, DE kills newly rezzed unit, stomp/rez with necro, then shaolin must kill the phantom).
Finally, the Shaolin have limited rez and healing options. So if you can focus down a couple Taoists, they are in serious trouble. Yes, Shadow can rez, but not heal, so pretty soon all his units will have 100 hp.
Main thing is to watch out for crystal rushing. Bamboo on assault tiles is very strong.
*embarassed* ... Guys? I need DE v SL help. I keep getting pwned. >.>
As the others have said, Void Monk harass is very strong. Shaolin are crippled by AOE. Also, most Shaolin burst damage is magic (poisoner, dragon). So, a void monk with a hat is pretty strong.
Also, the necro does a pretty good job of negating the Shadow. Normally, Shadow gives an AP advantage, but against necro he doesn't (shaolin kills, range stomp/rez, DE kills newly rezzed unit, stomp/rez with necro, then shaolin must kill the phantom).
Finally, the Shaolin have limited rez and healing options. So if you can focus down a couple Taoists, they are in serious trouble. Yes, Shadow can rez, but not heal, so pretty soon all his units will have 100 hp.
Main thing is to watch out for crystal rushing. Bamboo on assault tiles is very strong.
I agree with these statements. Additionally if you choose to spend the effort you can easily get a wraith fed up due the SL shadow rezzing units at 100hp ou tin the field. It can become the Wraith's next lunch. I like ikarigendo's suggestion of using the necro better though. I had the opportunity to create for DE a fully fed wraith, but by the time it was super beastly I dropped bamboo and finished off the crystals so if you go that route make sure you can take advantage of your uber wraith and not get forked in a crystal rush.
I did have in one game vs DE that they got two void monks out early and both had helmets and soul gems and sword upgrades. It was terrible for the longest time and the only way I managed to reverse it (and actually win the game) was by swarming the VM.
basically it's hive warfare, I just moved a monk I front of him, smacked it and then put a wind blade also close to him but not within the same direction/cone as the monk. So he had to choose each time, KO/Stomp to monk Or the wind blade... Eventually with many more guys dead than just his two VM on my side, the VMs were killed. By the time he got Necrosis out I still had poisoned and my shadow and is worked out in my favor.
so while I agree that Shaolin are underpowered, you can still beat DE VMs if you are willing to sacrifice guys to do so. The key is that ou can never hang out and wait to be bombarded by AOE, and this applies in all games. I only did well vs ArtNJs Dwarves because I never relented on the pressure. It's the only way you can even hope to keep the mid field. Relax the pressure, and you will take AOE damage.
Oh and set your guys up in square formations. So Taoist on the left, windblade or poisoner two spaces to the right and then two spaces beneath it, do the same. If you are in this pattern AOE is nullified. It just forces you to run with very few units, but at least you don't have to worry about mass healing when clearly you can't. You only have two potions and you will need those to recover from the innevitable moments when it just isn't practical to be arranged in an open square formation.
Really? VM can splash at most 4 units, more likely 2-3, which is just 2-3 Taoist heals. I mean, in that case, the solution to almost every race would be splashing void monks. <.< You need to spend 2 AP getting in and out, because otherwise regardless of how buff your VM is, combos will take you out, whereas for other races you can still rely on buffness. If you're in range of 2 SL units, any 2 units, you are likely to get ponied. Poisoners in particular are rough on VMs. You know all those examples up there, DE v SL, SL won in the end quite a few times, yes? >.>
I actually think the problem for DE is no ranged splash, which is also why DW and TF2 in particular are doing so well - if you're even 1 AP out of range, combos are no longer a problem, and range 3 splash does just that - you have to either focus on healing and leave the ranged unit in place to do more damage, or spend AP to move up to maybe kill the ranged unit.
VMs are tough because they can have 40% magic armor and then reverse partial damage without needing a priestess. So if they run up and do 3 hits at 900 on one guy and splash 600 on just one other unit you have to spend at least 1AP to resurect the KO unit, then at least 1AP to retreat and heal it, often more like 3 AP all together between healing, a move and at least 1 more heal, and then that still leaves the second tartlet who took 600. If you healtwo units to full, one who is KO and the other who took 600 you need 5AP. If the VMs can do this vs a crystal or if one or the two units taking the damage is a Taoist it gets trickier or at least not sustainable to take splash on two guys.
if you resurect and then say don't fully heal and instead spend some of your AP attacking the Vm you will not be at full health anymore and it can stomp something. Hence the need to actually sacrifice guys to try and thwart the VM. Poison is essential, but physical damage is better. Yur windblade and/or monk are he best sources to gang up on a VM, probably loosing one of them so that the other can do terminal damage.
its not impossible, but it is tough to deal with.
yes, grenader and demo man are even worse than VM because of the range 3 and they ignore LOS which is a huge strength of those units. Shaolins easiest match is tribe, followed by DE and of course their worst match ups are Tf2 and Dwarves because of the reasons mentioned.
/bump