SL Mechanics
Just trying to get my head around the combo system etc. Perhaps Hamlet will be able to use this research. =)
The basic combo system works as follows. Each SL unit applies 1 combo point to a unit if it has not attacked that unit this turn. Each combo point is worth 200 bonus combo damage, which is resolved before the combo point is added.
To illustrate:
Scenario 1
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, and applies 1 combo point to Cleric
Windblade 2 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage + 200 combo damage, and applies 1 more combo point for a total of 2 combo points.
Windblade 3 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage + 400 combo damage, and applies 1 more combo point for a total of 3 combo points.
The wording of the text in the combo potion is misleading. The next hit is not worth two combo points, as it says - in fact, it adds 1 combo point before the hit is resolved, and then as above, 1 combo point is added if the attacking unit has not yet attacked that target.
To illustrate:
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, and applies 1 combo point to Cleric
Windblade 2 uses Combo Potion
Windblade 2 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, applies 1 combo point to the Cleric and so does + 400 (not 200) combo damage, and then applies 1 more combo point to Cleric for a total of 3 combo points.
Windblade 3 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage + 600 combo damage, and applies 1 more combo point for a total of 4 combo points.
To show that this is what's happening, see the following illustration:
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, and applies 1 combo point to Cleric
Windblade 1 uses Combo Potion
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, applies 1 combo point to the Cleric and so does + 200 combo damage (where it would normally not combo with itself), but then does not apply any more combo points as it had already attacked the target Cleric, resulting in a total of only 2 combo points.
Man, this is complicated. >.>
I think choosing the Windblade for your examples was where you went astray - what with the asymmetrical rebound values. Perhaps if you used Taoists for simplest case (monks' debuff also complicates the math).
I'm only taking the initial hit, so it shouldn't matter.
Actually, I was using a taoist and windblade (the challenge "shields down") but I just went with windblade 1 2 and 3 for ease of reading. >.>
Here's a separate SL mechanics subtlety that I recently have noticed.
Typically a monk can only debuff a single opposing hero. Attacking a second unit removes the debuff from the first. However, when my monk was KOed and then rezzed by my shadow, it was able to debuff a second unit without removing the debuff from the first (the first debuff had been applied before the monk was KOed). My guess is that rezzing any unit (even friendly) with the shadow is equivalent to spawning a brand new unit; therefore the rezzed monk is a "different" unit.
anyone else observed this?
That would make sense, since a unit revived by the Shadow loses all of its equipment and other properties (such as the Engineer upgrade). I'm assuming this also applies to temporary buffs and debuffs as well (scrolls, Priestess, etc.) but I haven't personally tried it.
The shadow rezzed unit loses combopot aura. I was suitably disappointed.
the best uses for combo potion are when you use it at first and if possible (when you have 2 poisioners) with a weaker poisoner else with the shadow.
The usage of the combo potion is sadly limited, you cant use it so easily like a scroll, you need a good position and the right units.
I hoped that the sword for the shadow makes a significate difference when he combos as last, but often it still miss 10-20hp.
@Whosit01 yes he can only debuff one, but when he get stomped it keeps, so he is mostly a one-usage unit.
Oops. I was going to reply to the combo thing but realized my thought process is wrong, ha!
Why was the monk designed only to be able to debuff one unit? Does anyone feel it would be too overpowered if it could debuff multiple?
@Whosit01 yes he can only debuff one, but when he get stomped it keeps, so he is mostly a one-usage unit.
right, but if he is KOed and then rezzed with a friendly shadow (so not stomped), he can debuff a second unit without removing the debuff from the first one. At least, I think that is what happened.
This implies that KOed vanilla monks should always be rezzed with the shadow (as opposed to Taoist) when possible.
Nice find! I suppose that means that the first target is perma-debuffed, same as if the first monk was KOed (and so couldn't apply the debuff on anyone else).
but if he is KOed and then rezzed with a friendly shadow (so not stomped), he can debuff a second unit without removing the debuff from the first one. At least, I think that is what happened.
Yep. Stomp monks if an enemy shadow is around. JohnJanitor taught me that -- to my pain.
Very interesting find.
I have another find regarding monk debuff, which is prob a minor bug. If you apply his debuff to a unit, and then KO it, the debuff remains. Yet if the unit has no debuffs, and the monk is the one dealing the killing blow (like in poisoner/monk combos), no hp reduction debuff is applied prior to KO.
This isn't a bug, it's like that with every debuff- none are applied on the killing blow.
Really? I could have sworn priestess debuff was applied on killing blow, same as annihilator.
It isn't applied on killing blows
I think the Monk thing is a bug/oversight (it's also in the guide already). The Monk's prior debuff is cleared because he's attacking something, but a new one isn't applied.
I also think its a bug. Priestess applies debuff upon KO - that's for sure, and I'm not sure about the annihilator, but he should. Out of all of them monk needs it the most though, since after combos there is often not enough AP to stomp and a debuff would be nice
I just checked on the challenges, and it seems that if the priestess and annihilator did once apply the debuff on the killing blow, eh no longer do so. Hm!
I'm actually quite sure that they did, because I was planning on doing a blog post telling people to deal with killing blow with a priestess if possible, if you weren't going to stomp, as then at least if they rezzed they would stil have to deal with the debuff.
Nothing to do with the topic, i just wanted to say that I love your blogs Tabby. Hope you keep making more, so that i don't kill myself at work =)
Thanks! Glad you enjoy the blog. :)
I just checked on the challenges, and it seems that if the priestess and annihilator did once apply the debuff on the killing blow, eh no longer do so. Hm!
I'm actually quite sure that they did, because I was planning on doing a blog post telling people to deal with killing blow with a priestess if possible, if you weren't going to stomp, as then at least if they rezzed they would stil have to deal with the debuff.
Yes, once upon a time killing blows did apply debuffs (and that actually made a difference in some of my games). Since Robot didn't say anything about this in the release notes, it was probably an unintentional change, at least at first.
For consistency's sake, I think it should be restored to how it used to be (since KOing still doesn't remove previously applied debuffs).
You know what? That's not even it. I've discovered a new scenario which seems to contradict my thoughts on the combo potion above.
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, and applies 1 combo point to Cleric
Windblade 2 uses Combo Potion
Windblade 2 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, applies 1 combo point to the Cleric and so does + 400 (not 200) combo damage, and then applies 1 more combo point to Cleric for a total of 3 combo points.
Ok. But let's see what happens when we attack before we use the combo potion.
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, and applies 1 combo point to Cleric
Windblade 2 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage + 200 combo damage, and applies 1 more combo point for a total of 2 combo points.
Windblade 2 uses Combo Potion
Windblade 2 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage + 200 combo damage, but does not apply any more combo points for a total of 2 combo points.
Bwuh? What is going on here? It seems like if the unit has already attacked the target in this turn, the combo potion allows that unit to do bonus combo damage this turn, but does not add any combo points???
EDIT: That's not right either, since the following scenario:
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, and applies 1 combo point to Cleric
Windblade 1 uses Combo Potion
Windblade 1 attacks Target Cleric for 200 damage, applies 1 combo point to the Cleric and so does + 200 combo damage (where it would normally not combo with itself), but then does not apply any more combo points as it had already attacked the target Cleric, resulting in a total of only 2 combo points.
means that 1 combo point was added even though no combo points would have been added without the combo potion. Maybe the combo potion text just means that if the combo count is less than 2, then combo points will be added until the combo count is 2 but no more?
Mew? =^^=
Read Oh My Void Monks, my hero academy blog at http://omvm.blogspot.com! Last updated 8 May 2013 - Game Replay tabby_nat(DE) v KevinSpinti(DW)