Project: Build Consensus Balance Re ...

Well, for starters, there could be a burning mechaninsm like in TF2 if you want to make it more accurate: reduce damage to 250 and add a 200 dmg at start of opponent's turn mechanic that can be removed upon death or when healed.  Just kidding, I know we aren't trying to make new mechanics, but all the TF2 team units have corresponding HP values to their TF2 counterparts... and self healing IS a property of the medic in TF2.  :)

To be honest, I don't think enemy positioning moves are necessary for the Shaolin. First of all, not every team has to have every mechanic. Dwarves have a distinct lack of ranged stomp, but they're considered to be a very powerful team. Second of all, I think if SL were properly balanced, they could control tiles and force units to back up based on positioning alone.
Still, that monk swapping move sounds really cool. I wouldn't mind seeing it in a future team.

Um, position is everything to the shaolin. If the enemy isn't in range of 3 unique units, the team doesn't work. Actually, I think position is the number one topic we should be discussing. Indeed, not all teams need every mechanic, but now that I think about it, this team might. 
 
Its also pretty clear that one of the weaker units is the monk. If anything should be focused on, it should be how we can get that unit more involved with achieving the team goal of combo stacking. 
 
Lets look at how the shaolin loses to dwarves. Dwarves have a pretty weak beginning and thrive towards the end. But, the paladin stacking and engineering bubble buys them time and when they turtle up, it's an uphill battle. Beer, bubbles, auras - all great for dwarves. 
 
The shaolin, in my very small opinion, have just a slow of a start, but don't really have an aresonal of defensive abilities to get them through the start of the match to where they can be set up to combo. Bambo is a fantastic thing, but it doesn't block Los all the time, and units can walk right through it, making it better as a range stomp. 
 
If the shaolin can't be defensive, then I vote they be disruptive. Much like how the typhoon is such a fun way to screw up your opponents field, a 3 space movement monk that can swap places with an enemy, getting them away from auras, off premium squares, or just one space closer to your high fire power, would be a perfect fit for this team. 

Monk swap, monk swap, rah rah Rah!

Join in everyone!
 
**You realize we're going to get in trouble from ArtNJ, cuz it's new mechanics, right? This would really kill in the Shaolin Mobility thread but here, maybe not...**

Weaker players can fight evenly with dwarf against strong opponents with any team. They ain't balanced and it's only dwarf players defending them. Is there even one non-dwarf player that doesn't think they are too powerful? 
 
I can make assertions too.
 
I think the only way we can settle this is to play two games simultaneously with each of us on either team.  

I'm ambivalent about the sniper nerf, TBH. 2 shotting a vanila 800 with an upgraded sniper (430) and a 390 damage unit actually seems reasonable to me - TF2 have very few ways of 2 shotting things. If you can set up an upgraded sniper shot and a 390 damage shot, you should be entitled to that 2 hit kill (which isn't even that if the vanilla unit has any resistance at all).
 
My question is, is the sniper really the problem? An immobile 1 shot of middling damage (let's be honest, 400 is not a LOT of damage, especially when blocked by LOS, disrupted by splash, etc)? 
 
The problem with TF2 is that (IMO) they are too efficient. A good battle for TF2 would be one where TF2 units are traded for high value units, and TF2 wins on those trades. If not, TF2 is supposed to lose. To do that, jarate is commonly used - whether in conjunction with a sniper, pyro or soldier. I would instead try to nerf the jarate to nerf the TF2 overall, rather than pick on the sniper (which, tbh, I don't see as a big threat without jarate).
 

Table of Jarate damage shots
Current Jarate (-175%)
           300 | 390    | 400  | 430
===================================
0%  resist 825 | 1072.5 | 1100 | 1182.5
20% resist 765 | 994.5  | 1020 | 1096.5
40% resist 705 | 916.5  | 940  | 1010.5

Nerfed Jarate (-150%)
           300 | 390 | 400  | 430
===================================
0%  resist 750 | 975 | 1000 | 1075
20% resist 690 | 897 | 920  | 989
40% resist 630 | 819 | 840  | 903

Sounds reasonable, nat. But can +3 wraiths that have been fed still be killed in one turn? If no then no deal. Those things can solo a team because high damage + high survival and life steal > tf2

Tabby - There is no set up involved in a sniper 400 hit though.  You literally end your turn, and if you opponent doesn't move from that entire row, thats a massive amount of damage.  Its a range of 8, its ridiculous.  
 
And I agree with redex, if a fully upgraded wraith fed 3 times can't survive it, no dice.  A fully upgraded wraith is the best unit in the game.  It takes skill and a luck to get him all the way up there, so THAT should be rewarded more than a sniper that hides in the back with no feasable way to deal with them.

I really don't get why you feel so strongly that TF2 are stronger than Dwarves. You seem to be talking as if there's some sort of consensus that TF2 are better when there really, really isn't. But anyway, I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I think there are a number of ways to nerf TF2. The sniper nerf is undesirable because there is a very fine line between being useful, and arguably too powerful, as it is now, and just being completely usless.  I don't think we should tamper with that, lest we are left with the completely useless sniper as per before the patch (on that note, BTW, most people agreed that TF2 was a little underpowered before the sniper change, and now suddenly they're OP and the sniper should be nerfed along with other things? It doesn't really make much sense). I'd prefer to tamper with the Demoman, either so that it can't lob or so that its AoE damage is reduced. This, combined with the respawn token costing an AP, would definitely go far enough IMO, without effectively ruining a unit (as the nerf would do to the sniper). Slightly nerfing Jarate is also a possibility (although this one small change could easily make TF2 very weak if not done properly), as is reducing engineer HP. But nerfing the Heavy HP is a big no-no for me; the heavy is TF2's only high HP unit. Making them even more squishy by nerfing it is not a good way to balance a team, and the heavy relies on its strong HP to be offensively effective, any weaker and it simply won't be able to do meaningful damage and live to tell the tale.

This is my first post on these forums, but I've been playing Hero Academy for a while now.  I also exclusively play on my iPhone, so I have never played as TF2.
One thing that I think makes SL particularly hard to balance, which is probably why we haven't heard much about it from Robot, is that if the Monk and Windblade are made to be better, I think there's a good chance that the Shadow or Poisoner will instead BECOME OP.
SL seems to be a team where your only possible hope of winning is with a strong starting draw.  If you don't get a Shadow or Poisoner in the first 2-3 turns you're pretty much guaranteed to lose.  BUT I think there's a real risk that if the Monk/Windblade become way better, the Poisoner will be able to control the board pretty easily.
The changes I would suggest to the team, as a result are:
(1) Monk has 3 mobility.  This seems key to me in making the Monk's ability to render strong units more manageable with his -200 HP debuff actually useful.
(2)Windblade should start with 250 damage.  An AOE bonus would also be good, but I think a damage increase is nicer.
(3) I think a Poisoner's attacks should get their own debuff benefit, as in if a Poisoner attacks multiple times in a row, they should do the same damage each time and ONLY if a different unit attacks the same target, should the debuff come into affect.
I know a lot of people are going to argue with me on that last one, but I think in tandem with making the other units stronger, it will make the team more fun, whereas right now I think its too much about the Poisoner/Shadow to be really enjoyable.
I'm also not sure where I stand on changes to the Taoist.  Self-heal or a range3 heal could be fun, but I feel like the team isn't soooo lacking in healing ability because the Shadow can be used to revive your own units.