Petition: Remove the One Crystal Map
You know the one. One crystal. Two cyrstal assault tiles. No fun. I want it retired.
That's right. I want it completely removed from the game.
If you've played any significant number of games, you've been the victim of a devastatingly fast crystal crush on this map, haven't you? I have done a few myself. I once beat someone in a mear 26 turns on that map. It is by far the least interesting and most unbalanced map. Please read on and I will explain in greater detail. However, for starters, there is only one viable strategy on that map, making it an exceedingly boring and predictable battle. It also massively amplifies the first turn advantage, especially for Council who can just slap a few knights on the assault tiles and expect a victory. In fact, it all around seems to favor the Council, as the other benefit tiles are adjacent to the crystal, so a wizard can just zap through everyone clustered around it. Twice I have had an opponent who has gone first on this map as Council, gotten a wizard, scroll, and sword on their original draw, and proceeded to saunter over after gaining control of the assult tiles, scroll zap my group, thus effectively winning the match in one turn. In addition, it is easy if the lane is clear for council to just position an archer behind their own crystal, pop out, shoot the opposing crystal, then hop back to saftey. Since Dark Elves have no physical damage reduction besides void monks, this makes their options rather limited in defending against this tactic. Effectively, the team that goes second on this map spends the entire game playing catch up, and is usually forced to remain on the defensive. This is especially true on Dark Elf vs. Council matches, when the council is given the first turn. Generally, gaining control of both assault tiles for even one round of attacks makes it impossible to catch up for the other team.
The bottom line is this. It's not an interesting map. It's not a fun map. It's not a balanced map. It needs to go.
I will say this - it might be possible to salvage this map with a few changes. First, the benefit tiles need to be moved away from the crystal vertically. Second, the assault tiles need to be moved one square closer to the crystals. This would guarantee that both side would likely have control of at least one assult tile, and controlling both would be made extremely difficult. I would rather the map just be removed, but those changes would at least make it more interesting.
If the crystals were moved to the end zone it would make for an interesting game.
I too agree this map is completely unbalanced and I tend to think RE agrees with this observation. One of my few wins vs Zeke was on this map Council vs DE (I went first). I obliterated his Crystal in a mere 20 turns, one of my shortest games ever.
Surely this didin't go unnoticed by him, in fact we laughed about how rediculous it was. I would expect some changes to either this map, or crystal boost tiles at some point.
Agreed, this map sucks.
I've played quite a few game with Pixel, and we are fairly evenly matched. Neither of us enjoys playing the other on this map.
The suggestion of moving the crystal back closer to the spawn could balance it a bit. I'd be glad to try it and maybe salvage the map.
Im just popping into threads to keep reminding people that dark elves lack of physical defense should not be fixed. This is going to be a many team game each with different types of playstyles and disadvantages and advantages against other teams. If you play against a future team that has heavy magic, you will be praising it!
Other things like health and dmg and move I think can be nerfed or buffed as needed, but i like the resists.
Yeah ok, just destroyed the center crystal on turn 18. There is something to what people are saying here about that there map.
Yeah, I've only been the victim of crystal rushing twice, and once on this map. The other was my fault as I made poor choices, but on this map it is possible for the match to be thrown out of your hands.
Ya, I agree....if they aren't gonna get rid of the 1 crystal, they should at least get rid of the 2 crystal defense sucker thingers....
+1 - I usually auto-retire matches on this map when I get DE against Council, no point wasting my time
Haha, I literally just won on this map 10 minutes ago. I was playing Council and went first. Just rushed an obliterated the crystal. Also I was lucky and had a knight with shield and helm and an archer with runemetal. Eventually the enemy dropped a ninja and killed my ninja and then archer. All distractions as he got his knights closer into play and I used them as a lightning rod to spawn a mage, move one square, and break the last few hits of health on the crystal for the win.
Agreed. I'd love to see the stats on this map for Council vs NE when Coucil goes first.
I like the idea of 2 crystal attack squares, maybe moving the attack/defense squares one space away from the crystal and increasing its health to 12000 or so would help deal with rushing. However, the crystal has 2x health already, it might be unbalanced to increase that too much.
2 games in a row on this map against the same opponent in HAL. Got rushed like crazy on both. Once you are on the defensive it's almost impossible to win. For mtg players its like playing against straight burn. Terrible.
Disagree, I enjoy fast maps. It's like Rust in Call of Duty. Fun to have a fast and furious battle now and then. Maybe consider moving the sword tile back toward the deploy zone by one, though.
I have nothing against fast maps. I do take issue with a map that can essentially be won or lost fully by players draws. I won a match on the one crystal map after drawing a bunch of offensive units and items early, there was nothing my opponent could do. At least with 2 crystal maps, units have to move to target the second crystal and it gives a chance for players to see what is going on and adapt.
Fast maps amplify the first mover advantage. If the avantage is slight, then it might be ok. But if the advantage is big (say for example, the first mover gets a great offensive first hand, and the second mover gets bupkis but clerics and potions), then a fast map amplifies that to unwinnable status.
I've never been rushed to death on the 1 crystal maps yet, but I can certainly see the possibility. There are 2 fixes.
1. To reduce the first mover advantage
- The inherent advantage of moving first (e.g. white in chess)
- The random advantage of getting a good first hand (further explained below)
2. To slow down the map, so that the first mover advantage is reduced
The random advantage of getting a good first hand might seem to be a balanced issue, since you could just as easily get a good hand as a bad hand. But the perception is very different - if your opponent gets a good first hand, and kills you, you notice it far more than if he got a bad first hand, and the play proceeds as normal.
This effect is of course present in all maps, but combined with the faster play of the 1 crystal map, makes it obvious, and therefore un-fun. I don't know if reducing the first mover advantage is possible at this moment (it's probably never been solved in Chess, and only partially solved in Go), especially with limited data mining, but long term, I believe Robot should work towards this.
On the other hand, slowing down the map is certainly possible. The problem with the map, IMO, is that all the focal points clustered around the gems, wheras the 2 gem break tiles are way out in the middle of nowhere, thus making controlling both gem break tiles impossible and not worth the actions. The only rational strategy is to then control one of the gem break tiles with a lone tank, and rushing for the win.
A few suggestions have been raised, generally along the lines of moving the premium tiles. I personally like the idea of having only 1 gem break tile, and having it square in the centre of the map. This makes for a second "focal point", thus introducing more strategy - you have to fight for the tile, AND it is "near the action" so you don't need to waste actions getting from here to there. This retains the speed and offensive nature of the map, while not reducing it to a base trade.
IMO. :)
I agree that this map is imbalanced. We are brainstorming some possible changes. No promises, I just wanted to say that we hear your pleas :).
How else am I to beat you if this gets changed?! haha!
Change this please! Dont wanna get another random loss due to 2knights just standing afk and winnning the game in 3seconds... :S
I play with DE, and when I face a solid CL player on this map, I just want to quit. There's no point.
I'm in a League match, happened to get a knight on one crystal weakening square with another on the attack square of the enemy giving him a sword and scroll. It's turn 8 and he's already down to 48%. Will probably be a 10 round match.
This is the worst map in the game, I don't think it should be changed so much as removed. Though, thank you for the easy victory Robot Entertainment. My ELO score is laughing all the way to the bank. (Pretending I hate my unfair advantage to safe face...)
I like your proposed changes to the map. I don't like the idea of removing it entirely; I like some maps to be fast, some slower, etc. Recall that a lot of your beefs are just a rehash of the first turn advantage issue (first player gets 3 or 4 turns instead of the full 5, DOOOOOOOOOOO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIT) and DE vs Council advantage issues in general, and if those were dealt with then this map wouldn't be nearly as problematic. It can definitely be said that the map strongly encourages one strategy over others, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.