Monk debuff bug?!?!
I have a match of DE v SL. Three of my units have monk HP debuffs. One of these monks moves up, and attacks a unit that hadn't previously had an HP debuff. Now i have 4 units with monk debuffs.
Isn't the monk debuff supposed to disappear upon attacking a different unit? Or am i seriously overlooking something?
Did one of his monks get KOd after debuffing you, and then later was rezzed by his Shadow?
To expand, if the Shadow raises a unit, it is considered a brand new unit -- no mods, no buffs, and no "history" of previous activity. This makes it theoretically possible (though not easy) for a single monk to get debuffs on multiple enemies, since each Shadow "raising" makes a new copy of the Monk.
Hmmmmm...possibly. But how long has it been known that this happens? This is the first ive heard anything about this.
Gosh, it's been a while. I've read it discussed on more than one other topic. But usually in those suggesting buffs for SL (like not having 1 debuff per monk).
I tend to avoid balance threads, so thats probably why this is news to me. Thanks for clearing that up! Im assuming the patch will fix this?
I tend to avoid balance threads, so thats probably why this is news to me. Thanks for clearing that up! Im assuming the patch will fix this?
I think its by-design... like the DW engineer bubble or TF medic-buff.
I tend to avoid balance threads, so thats probably why this is news to me. Thanks for clearing that up! Im assuming the patch will fix this?
I think its by-design... like the DW engineer bubble or TF medic-buff.
Is this another Writch-ism? Because I'd say it's definitely a bug. Both the dwarven bubble and medic link are part of what makes those teams tick. And as far as i know, neither of them have anything out of the ordinary about them. But shadow-rezzed monks being able to apply potentially infinite debuffs, that certainly seems unintentional.
To expand, if the Shadow raises a unit, it is considered a brand new unit -- no mods, no buffs, and no "history" of previous activity. This makes it theoretically possible (though not easy) for a single monk to get debuffs on multiple enemies, since each Shadow "raising" makes a new copy of the Monk.
Quoting for emphasis. I would say this is just a bi-product of the shadows Rez mechanic. If you use it to Rez an equipped unit that unit loses all equipped items being treated as NEW unit on the board. I believe this is so you can't steal equipment from the other team. Although I wouldn't mind if the shadow actually rezed your own units with the gear. Maybe that's the intended shadow "buff" (I think it was listed on the list?) and would in turn stop this monk issue.
Edit: never mind the shadow "buff" part. Just looked and it's not on the upcoming changes post.
By "list" do you mean of the changes in the patch? Because unless I missed something again, that hasnt come out yet.
I just looked and shadow isn't on the list in the upcoming changes post. I must have seen somebody suggest something. I don't really think its a bug though.
Im not saying its necessarily a bug, because the shadow rez is designed to refresh the unit. Im saying its unintentional.
I believe we need a dev to come clear this up for us.
Lol. Wouldn't that be neat? If the devs actually interacted with us again?
Lol. Wouldn't that be neat? If the devs actually interacted with us again?
Maybe their absence is a bug. We need to get a shadow to revive them so that they can interact with us once again.
it is indeed a bug. There's a flaw in the way the debuff is tracked.
But before I explain the programming nuance, let me clarify by defining terms. A KO'd monk can be renewed-rezzed by Shadow, or refreshed-rezzed by a Taoist. This subtle difference is where the debuff gets tangled when trying to keep track of the debuff programmatically.
Okay, so while the monk runs around and applies its debuff, whenever it hits a different unit, there is probably an attribute that has a 1:1 value to the debuff unit and that value/association pointer gets transferred at each strike - if monk strikes the same unit, it may even just get reapplied but you never know cuz it's overlaid.
So the programming probably retains the state and allocation of the buff on its applied unit even when the monk gets KO'd so that the correct monk-buff association be maintained should the monk be refreshed-rezzed by a Taoist - just like gear and consumes can be salvaged with a rescue-heal.
But along comes the Shadow. The shadow does not refresh the unit it basically creates a new one. In object oriented terms, the prior monk instance is destroyed and a new identical object is instantiated with Ownership to the Shadow team. However, the developers did not clean-up properly within the monk's destruct method - it does not find and also wipe out the debuff - which must be a public instance itself since other units' damage has to use it for damage calc. Same sort of problem as a "memory leak".
All units might be using a global puppet destruct method that has not been designed to handle a debuff. The bubble and medic-buff are both de-linked at KO and are thus extension methods of the KO behavior (e.g. you never see a bubble reform after the engineer "heals" or medic's glow relink after heal).
TL;DR: It's a monk-bug because debuff has to carry after KO, but is forgotten and carried into afterlife.
Are we saying it's possible to debuff the entire team with a single Monk and a stupidly large amount of luck and patients?
:D
I can imagine ... yes I'll have the monk debuff and be just in range to be killed but not stomped so i can rez him and debuff another unit
soon all the enemies will be debuffed mua ha ha ha .......
A good rule of thumb: Stomp monks if shadows around.
A good rule of thumb: Stomp monks if shadows around.
Don't listen to Adaza's advice. He clearly is working for the Shaolin team to extend the life of Monks. :)
Should say: Stomp monks if shadows are around.
Or maybe this is more clear: Don't drop a monk under a shadow, if you can't stomp him.
I don't think monk debuffs should outlive the monk, (like engineer bubbles), so in a shadow resurrection, the old debuff would be lost. Of course, at the moment Shaolin needs all the help it can get.
Did a Shadow raise it?