Mechanics Reference, Final
LOL, so does this mean bamboo prevents defeat?
Excellent question! Let's take the matter up in one of our games, Net. We'll have to both be SL to increase the odds and fairness that we both hold back a bamboo-grove for Le Grande Finale.
Not sure if this was covered, but I've verified this recently for shaolin.
When Los is blocked for ranged shadow conversion, and you "attack"the unit corpse as usual. The shadow will not convert target but rather move to target tile and stomp the corpse. This can happen vs tf2 if a spy is in front of the corpse for example.
I presume this is the case as well for necromancer phantom or witches corpse explosion attempts in similar situations.
Not sure if this was covered, but I've verified this recently for shaolin.
When Los is blocked for ranged shadow conversion, and you "attack"the unit corpse as usual. The shadow will not convert target but rather move to target tile and stomp the corpse. This can happen vs tf2 if a spy is in front of the corpse for example.
I presume this is the case as well for necromancer phantom or witches corpse explosion attempts in similar situations.
Weird. I have the impression I recently noticed the opposite: if Shadow can't convert it, it can't stomp it either. Could a server-side update have changed the situation?
Not sure if this was covered, but I've verified this recently for shaolin.
When Los is blocked for ranged shadow conversion, and you "attack"the unit corpse as usual. The shadow will not convert target but rather move to target tile and stomp the corpse. This can happen vs tf2 if a spy is in front of the corpse for example.
I presume this is the case as well for necromancer phantom or witches corpse explosion attempts in similar situations.
Weird. I have the impression I recently noticed the opposite: if Shadow can't convert it, it can't stomp it either. Could a server-side update have changed the situation?
When I said verified recently I mean as of yesterday. I was not aware of the what would happen in such situation with Shadow before yesterday. I took out a medic with a dragon spell but the spy in front of it was still alive. It wouldn't let me convert the medic so I just stomped it with the Shadow. Nothing in this game inhibits movement if the space is available and within range so occupy tile / stomp should be the expected behavior if the default mechanic is blocked for some reason.
...Nothing in this game inhibits movement if the space is available and within range so occupy tile / stomp should be the expected behavior if the default mechanic is blocked for some reason.
I agree. I was quite annoyed with the situation I was in. I should have been able to stomp it but instead I got the keep out sign on it that you get when you can't hit it because of LOS. I wonder if it matters whether the corpse is yours or theirs?
Or possibly the spy, different from a normal unit, was the difference.
Adaza, was it on your opponent's spawn tile?
Adaza. When I stomped the medic past the spy the keep out sign was present on targeting but on tap again/ click it moved the shadow to stomp.
Adaza. When I stomped the medic past the spy the keep out sign was present on targeting but on tap again/ click it moved the shadow to stomp.
This ^^^ has been my same Tribe Witch experience with Explode and/or Stomp I noted during some random games. I've accepted it as a valid and consistent mechanic across teams.
The General Principal at play is: LOS affects attack-targetting, but not travelling - you can always move/jump over units, but not attack through units unless your unit has the special attribute of being a Lobber (e.g. TF Demoman, DW Grenadier).
Hamlet: could you please update your blog when you have a chance, with at least a partial guide of Shaolin mechanics? Your blog used to be my one stop shopping for HA rules, but now I'm all flustered!
I do want to, just been busy/traveling a lot. I think I know most of it by know (except for all kinds of possible edge cases with converted units), just have to write it all down.
None of us know exactly how the windblade aoe so it behaving unusually is expected. But In my mind it should hit the ninja
Can't see pics and posting from phone but,
Windblade AE is basically like Wizard, except that the second jump is also from the main target. If you start at the main target and use the Wizard jump priority rules (see guide), the highest priority target gets the 50% jump, and the second-highest priority gets the 25% jump.
Adaza. When I stomped the medic past the spy the keep out sign was present on targeting but on tap again/ click it moved the shadow to stomp.
I'll have to watch for that next time it comes up. Maybe I didn't try to tap through the keep out sign.
Oh btw, your reference has been invaluable. Just wanted to say thanks!
Adaza, was it on your opponent's spawn tile?
I think I would have remembered if it was. I am attuned to the singularity of the spawn tile.
Thanks.
If you can tap through the keep out sign, I bet I didn't.
Oh btw, your reference has been invaluable. Just wanted to say thanks!
+1
Out of curiosity, I tested whether or not a jarated Shaolin unit can suicide itself using bamboo on the train map if it is the final unit causing a so-called "submit loss" situation. The answer is that yes, the suicide worked.
What happens from the Shaolin perspective is that it just says the normal "submit turn" button (or submit with taunt or cancel) like a normal turn, but then once you submit the turn the game automatically ends, the "you have been defeated" message appears, and the TF2 team does its victory dance. So it's basically the same effect as if you resigned immediately after submitting your turn--the other team gets no chance to go again.
EDITED TO ADD:
But here's the weird part. From the TF2 perspective, it also says "you have been defeated" and awarded 1 taunt. Yet, the TF2 team is doing its victory dance.
So, both teams lose? I wonder how this would be treated in a tournament if it ever came up -- give the Shaolin player credit for a clever draw?
EDIT 2:
From the TF2 side, the game is now stuck in my active game queue as if it is my turn, yet no move can be made (only re-viewing of the suicide win "defeat"), which is kind of annoying yet somehow reassuring that I slipped through the cracks of the Robot logic wall (aka the Shaolin suicide buffer overflow bug).
What would happen if you kill the last unit on the enemy team and suicide with the bamboo on the same turn?
What would happen if you kill the last unit on the enemy team and suicide with the bamboo on the same turn?
Per my edit above I assume it would also be a draw, though that might be interesting to test if someone has the motivation. I think my curiosity is satiated for now.
Also, I assume that Shaolin could do the same thing with an Annihilator or poisoner debuff on the train.
From the TF2 side, the game is now stuck in my active game queue as if it is my turn, yet no move can be made (only re-viewing of the suicide win "defeat"), which is kind of annoying yet somehow reassuring that I slipped through the cracks of the Robot logic wall (aka the Shaolin suicide buffer overflow bug).
Great, Gibbs, just great!... You broke the Internet.
For tournament purposes I'd call that a TF2 win, not a draw (with a display bug that causes it to look like a double loss). But it only matters if it comes up in situation that's not an intentional suicide by the Shaolin team.
By the way I actually looked the images linked on last page. Maybe Windblade can't chain from a friendly object to an enemy object.
Up too late so more comments/updates tomorrow. See what you think:
http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2012/08/10/hero-academy-mechanics-gu...
I've got some different results with the combo potion - see my thread. Basically, the effect of the combo potion on units which have already attacked is somewhat inconsistent. If SL units A and B both attack 1 target, and subsequently B uses a combo pot and attacks again, B does not add any combo points, but does do 1 combo point of bonus damage.
Also, I don't think bubbled units take combo points until the shield is broken..
They can get one from a combo potion, you can check in "Shields down!"
If you attack with A-B-Potion-B: Are you checking this in a situation where the target is still alive after those 4 actions, and there's still an AP left? You can't check this in Shields Down since you use an AP breaking the shield. Unless the target's alive and the turn's still going you can't tell how many combo points there are.
What happens if a unit with both shield and beer is hit by a Taoist? (Also, with combo potion?)
What does Engineer upgrade do for Shaolin?
Can Medic link Shaolin?
Does raising own unit with Shadow trigger bloodlust from an already-raised Tribe?
Can Annihilator debuff stack with Poisoner?
Does Paladin give aura to Shaolin units?
Can Ninja swap with Shaolin units?
How much damage do combo points 5 and 6 (possible with pre-potting) do?
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A note on combo potions. You want to use them as early in the chain as possible. For example, if you have 4 200 damage units in range of a crystal and a potion in hand.
If you attack with three and then potion and attack with the fourth: A does 200, B does 200+200, C does 200+400, and D (with potion) does 200+1600, for a total of 3000.
If you potion one and attack, and then attack with the other three: A (with potion) does 200+200, B does 200+400, C does 200+800, and D does 200+1600, for a total of 3800.
Doing the first way, you skip over the 800 point bonus with the potion. You always skip one bonus with the potion, and it should be the 0 point one.
Same is true is simply attacking a unit with 2 units and a potion. Potioning the first unit results in 400 and then 600 damage, for 1000 on vanilla units. Potioning the second results in 200 and then 600, wasting 200 damage.
This is all true even if there's a Poisoner in the chain. High-damage unit should attack last, and Poisoner second-last, but Potion should be on whatever attacks first.
Can Annihilator debuff stack with Poisoner?
Yes, they stack and result in a -90% physical debuff!
What happens if a unit with both shield and beer is hit by a Taoist? (Also, with combo potion?)
What does Engineer upgrade do for Shaolin? 30% rune metal takes prio
Can Medic link Shaolin? 50% damage buff that stacks with rune
Does raising own unit with Shadow trigger bloodlust from an already-raised Tribe?
Can Annihilator debuff stack with Poisoner? Yes
Does Paladin give aura to Shaolin units? Yes
Can Ninja swap with Shaolin units? Yes
How much damage do combo points 5 and 6 (possible with pre-potting) do? I assume 800 1000
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Placed answers after questions. Cos iPad and laziness
Combo points 3 and 4 add 800 and 1600 damage, not 600 and 800 as I think people had been assuming (see above post). Using 6 CP in one turn is probably unrealistic, but 5 could matter. If it does 3200, you try to pre-pot and use it to rush down the single crystal.
Maybe it doesn't go beyond 1600 though--they may not have put in special cases for 5 and 6 combo points (with animations and everything).
Anyone know how the worrier deals with a unit that is debuffed by the monk?
Is it 50% of original health or of reduced health? I would guess it is the original health but any help is appreciated
It's a good question, since the reduced max HP is what's shown on the character sheet. I'd guess reduced, will remember to check if I test a Tribe/SL game sometime.
Combo 6 is worth at least 2700, so fair to assume it's worth 3200. Combo 7 can only be tested on the single-crystal map. I just want to see if there's some possible shock strategy that involves charging 5 units into range of the big crystal and then doing 13500 damage in one turn.
A zombie tribe puppet (TR unit rezzed by SL Shadow) will be enraged when an SL Bamboo unit is destroyed.
Hilarious.
THAT PLANT WAS MY ONLY FRIEND! GRAAAAAAAH!
That's the same, exact reaction I had. In game chat, I had my zombied warrior quote Seymour about Audrey II dying in Little Shop of Horrors, it was non-canonical, of course.
Writch
Equal parts cur, mud, and gin.
Never shaken, but often stirred.
Serving suggestion: Usually taken with a pinch of salt.