Since everyone else seems to have thoroughly covered the initial impressions of balance (which are always proven so accurate) I'm going to focus on the atheistic of the team. All of the units have really cool looking special attacks (taoPIST. Kung fu fighting, plauge dart? Hell yes!) and because of the combo system we get to see those special attacks a ton, which is awesome. I really like the look of the blue orbs signaling the combo rating on each unit too. Theres a lot going on the screen with shaolin and I love it. The units look nice too, the monk kinda seems like he just snorted some white powder but I don't judge, wind blade upgraded looks like an absolute badass, I always upgrade at least one cause she looks so cool. Poisoner is deffently the team hottie, and a very powerful unit as well ,although probably not superior to be a annihilator ;), taoist reminds me of Gandalf so that's a plus, and finally the shadow is possibly the coolest unit in the game. I love looking at his stat spread, it's almost....attractive.... :)
Challenge me on ha, ryrythecuban, I'm deceant I guess. I love tribe but I'll play a specific team if you ask
Artwork = weak
I don't know if I stand alone when I say this but... the Shaolin teams seems very weak, and awkward to play. Mainly, to do enough damage to cause some pressure or kill an opponent, you need to use their gimmicky combo bonus. To use this... You need to bunch up like crazy. With 1 weak AoE and the dragon (which only damages 4 as opposed to possible 9 with fireball/soul feast/jack hammer) you may be able to kill one unit, but if the other team simply takes out a grenadier, void monk, pretty much any AoE and your entire team is screwed and you only killed one unit.
My first Shaolin match I was teamed vs. DE. Within 6 rounds I was so pushed back and not ready for his scrolled void monk that I forfeited.
The other annoying thing is... Shaolin vs. Shaolin... I've forfeited a few already because the match was just stupid boring. Every time both me and my opponent would send out pretty much every unit to the field, then once they were all out we'd proceed to run the poisoner out, kill one unit, retreat. Then next turn they'd red the posioner and do the same to me. It's just so difficult because the team has to stick together and none of the units really do a significant amount of damage.
I personally think that the team needs a buff, give the shadow like 350 base damage (highest base in game), I think this would at least give you some viable damage plus a range "stomp". Right now my shadow sits back and does nothing for the most part.
personally I hate the team bonus too. Really dumb with current attack range and encourages balling.
I'm a little surprise that no one has mentioned this, but perhaps no one thought it was worth mentioning.
What about a Shadow rezzing one of your downed units and then making a quick combo off of the rez'd unit and the Shadow?
Also, when the opponent takes out multiple units, like 2 or 3, then Shadow uses ranged rez to bring 2 back, and they work out a combo? Perhaps even tack on a Combo Potion to fully heal a rez'd unit and smack him with a 1-2 combo with the two rez'd units?
Seems like the Shadow is a good meatshield as well as ranged rez unit, which forces enemy players to stomp, and usually that will make or break their strategy. There are so many times where the enemy does not get cleanly away, and I avenge the fallen unit, not to mention convert the enemy fallen unit into a "Phantom-like" fodder that is rather dangerous and will force the enemy to target it first.
A self-taught man usually has a poor teacher and a worse student.
ill sum up this entire thread: the shaolin is a weak team! very weak! their combo play style is not easy to use in Hero Academy .. thus...something needs to be done if they want to remain as the weak/combo necessary team: increase combo stregnth, increase mobility, increase range, increase defense...also if ANY unit needs to be stregnthened, its the super unit (100 dmg? thats as much as the tf2 scout lmao), or the windblades AOE, which is almost pointless right now
I think the shadow unit conversion needs to be improved somehow. So far, all of the converted units I've managed to snag have gotten killed and stomped on the following move. Here are two alternative ideas:
1.) Give more HP to converted units (maybe 25% of their max) and retain any buffs they have. This way they have a fighting chance of survival, and converting a buffed unit, which is harder to do, becomes more rewarding. This would also serve to make the shadow more relevant as a de facto 4th healer to rez his own units in case of emergency.
2.) Instead of spawning on top of the KO'd body, have the converted unit go back into the Shaolin inventory deck for later deployment, unbuffed, at full health, similar to TF2's respawn. This would make unit conversion much more strategic (eg, capturing a healer) rather than just being a more urgent and annoying version of necro's phantoms.
Challenge me in Hero Academy (username: Gribbs) if you want to spar
I want to note that it mostly comes down to good range and mobility to use the team bonus. For that matter, I think if would suffice to give the Taoist Range 3 (would make his dispel and the team bonus much more relevant) and to increase the movement of the monk to 3. These changes alone would make setting up combination attacks much more possible. I also think the 100 damage on the super is very balanced, he sould be involved in a combination attack to be awesome.
There are not much other changes I can formulate right now, other than I feel that the team's healing is very weak( another strong point for range3 on the taoist) and I don't know if the combo potion is a proper replacement for the scroll.
I see a very powerful combo that seems to have been overlooked: upgraded windblades attaking afer a poisioner. Then they already have the debuff and a combo setup for massive damage. :D
Edit: if i did my math right its around 700 dmg for windblade and 200 dmg for poisoner... 2 shot abitlity!
Successfully scaled back my game count, resuming normal play. :)
I'll be back to helping train new players when school gets out. :)
So far the lack of mobility is the killer for me, as some have suggested either a range 3 taoist or a move 3 monk could just put the team into contention.
This is the first new team I have played where after two days of heavy playing I have not won a single game, not even against randoms. I am middle of the road at best against League players so Im no superstar, but I usually run 80 to 90 percent against randoms.
Shaolin is not working for me so far.
With TF2 I did very well against randoms even if i went 0-8 in the TF2 tourney, same with Dwarves and Tribe when they came out. I struggled against quality opponents but cleaned house against randoms.
This time I cant beat anyone to save my life, and the only potential win I have is against some kid playing his first game ever. I know how hard Robot works on blancing the teams before release so I know there is something I am missing, but I have not figured it out yet.
And I cant get the g@dmn Kung Fu Fighting song out of my head now either ;-)
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That makes it a little more difficult for me to determine what the problem is as I always struggled with new teams for the first week or so against good opponents, and I absolutely suck in TF2 mirror matches, but the TF2 team is certainly a good one.
I agree with 3 of the many suggestions in this thread and others.
1) Bamboo not a unit count for opening hand.
2) Monk movement to 3.
3) Taoist healing range to 3.
I think Shaolin may have the worst healing in the game. Any decent AOE would make recovery impossible when you're still trying to setup your combos. Having the shadow res with only 100 HP is worthless if you don't have an extra AP to heal the unit, and the combo potion is wasted on non-shaolin units. And again, with 100 HP next round AOE would just knock it down if not healed.
I do like your idea about keeping buffs in the more unique situations though. Converting a Wraith shouldn't make you have to feed him all over again. An add on could be temporary buffs should be kept, like scrolls or rage.
Increased rez potential for the Shadow is also not a bad idea, though i think the debate would then center on how much HP? I think the debated range would be between 200 and 300; Strong enough so that a 200 unit can't kill it in 1 shot, but weak enough for a sword'd unit or an unit designed for dmg (such as archers or impalers) to kill. This idea only needs to increase the rez ability of the Shadow but not its offensive stat.
Interesting point... I think I like your idea more.
I like the AoE heal better than the range 3 heal. However, a range 3 heal goes better with an upgrade to range 3 attack, which would be a great way to make the combo boosts more accessible.
AOE healing is a unique and interesting idea that is worth exploring that differentiates from other healers and provides necessary balance. It could easily be dialed to the right amount, and reversing debuffs would only work on the primary target.
Don't downplay the Shadows ability to raise a unit even at 100 health.
It's a ranged stomp.
It forces your opponant to spend 1AP to kill it "or else."
It's a solid aggressive push into the enemy's zone and can gain you access to things otherwise out of reach (Example, turning a Heavy and then using it's range-3 to get a quick shot at a sniper so that it won't be able to snipe-attack it's next turn)
I'm sure we'll find other awesome uses of it in the future. If nothing else, it's definately a step up from the Necro's Phantom ability.
All that being said, I think that there could be better synergy if the Taoist was given a range-3 heal, but I'm not convinced it's necessary yet, especially with talks of giving the monk movement-3 which fixes other problems the Shaolin suffer from. Not sure I'd want to see them have both.
Me personally, I use my Shadow as an emergency rez, where my Taoist is too far away and I have to make do with 5 AP.
What usually ends up happening is I rez my downed unit and then we kick the crap out of whatever killed it first and bring that back as a dangerous "Phantom" that the enemy has to kill AND stomp first. Then I run the first unit I rezed back to my Taoist to heal and regroup.
Hmmm. Shaolin have *arguably* the weakest healing (remember TF2 has only 2 healers, which offsets their self-heal and the upgrade for a tempo), but this doesnt necessarily mean that buffing healing is the way to buff the Shaolin (if they indeed need a buff). TF2 has crappy healing too, but they make up for it with a deap and powerful offense.
I think that improving healing should be in the mix, but that the two offensive-oriented buffs (monk movement and windblade AOE) raised might be sufficient by themselves, or at least more important. I am not convinced a team can be well rounded, fun and competetive in all situations without meaningful AOE.