Equal parts cur, mud, and gin.
Never shaken, but often stirred.
Serving suggestion: Usually taken with a pinch of salt.
If it's only 2 I would choose potion + taoist range
A wise man is superior to any insults which can be put upon him, and the best reply to unseemly behavior is patience and moderation.
After watching Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon I was struck by inspiration. What about adding a function to bamboo to boost mobility? As in, make bamboo a placeable movement boost tile for friendly Shaolin. Personally I already love bamboo, and quite frankly I didn't really think this idea through that much, just thought it would add a fun element to an already intriguing, if somewhat flawed, team. It would give bamboo somewhat of an offensive application to go with its mostly defensive bits.
You've come to steal our good ideas! You've been foiled, we have none
The Snipper goes into a pose at the end of the turn which tells you that it's next shot will be stronger. If the Shaolin could get such end-of-turn poses, the team could work in such a way that first move of your units (or a subset of them) were either free, or at least moved further.
if the wind blade moved 3 on its first move a turn, or two for free, that would be the mobility edge they would need to get into position for combos without having to waist APs doing so. (Putting the wind into the wind blade)
sadly such a change would require new artwork (the end of turn "I can move further" mood), so it's unlikely to happen. But such a mechanism would indirectly promote team movement, as apposed to promoting individual movement like it does now.
Another idea I was toying with is to modify the attack mechanic of the monk. Basically an attack causes him to swap positions with his foe. Sort of a modified version of the D Elves' impaler. An attack would add to the team combo counter, plus position the enemy for any allies in the back. You could keep the power and HP the same, but maybe raise the range to two.
Downside for the monk is it could bring him closer into enemy territory, but that's where the high HP and strategy come into play. Would make for interesting play with Shaolin vs Shaolin.
Sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread. Just had to cram that thought onto some virtual paper.
Hero Academy ID: BlottoBrah
@BlottoBrah - Don't discredit that mechanic. It actually sounds pretty interesting. Move up with the monk, attack with him and swap places placing him in closer range to the poisoner, shoot w/ poisoner, attack w/ monk to swap back, move back.
Sounds good to me. It would also be hilarious to get a row of monks lined up every other space and "drag" an enemy into the middle of your turtle. And it adds a mechanic that seems to be missing, but no one has mentioned: moving enemies off tiles.
The only problem I see is it would require a new animation...but Robot has been so quiet that I think we deserve a new animation ><
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Jibbyjackjoe - start a game with me!
Redexoskeleton. That's my name in game. Challenge me if you like (I am slightly above average) be sure to mention if it is a friendly or league game
Love the monk swaping Idea
Thought i'd let me lend my voice to this . I really like this as a defensive bamboo could be used to 'launch' an ambush attack from behind. It could give a + movement aura. Either static + amount or have it reduce as the bamboo is damaged .. less cover for the ambush..
I also think Monk-swap (with Monk HP buff) is an inspired and brilliant idea.
I'm suprised it hadn't been though of before by RE considering how many teams and units are out there.
I am very suprised the whole lacking-a-displacement attack on the Shaolin side has been under- discussed on all these Weak-Shaolin pop-up threads. It is totally missing from the team unless you "count" the Shadow's take over - but that happens only after a KO which is not the case with all the other teams' displacers.
I thought that the lack of push/drag was intentional, actually - yes, SL can't push or pull anyone off a tile, but remember they can clog up tiles like a champ - bamboo and monk and shadow all hold tiles excellently, unlike say DE or TF2.
Read Oh My Void Monks, my hero academy blog at http://omvm.blogspot.com! Last updated 8 May 2013 - Game Replay tabby_nat(DE) v KevinSpinti(DW)
Tabby - it probably was intentional, but if a buff is needed why not introduce the mechanic back in? They'll still be lacking a ranged rez option, and it'll still leave the council in its jack of all niche with a range stomp, range res, push/pull, and all other little mechanics.
And it's not just for tile supremacy. The idea behind shaolin is to get your opponent in the middle of a 1-2-3 KO. Not only would this help get the opponent off a tile, it would also move them closer to your buddies behind you waiting to attack. It's not just a random mechanic thrown in because they're lacking it, it would actually buff the shaolin's main theme.
Think of it in terms of tactics - what we are proposing is a way for SL to force the opponent into a combo KO. Is that a good thing?
Giving SL a pull would mean that SL has a way of setting up a pretty good turtle (unless you're playing DW or TF2, you're not going to be splashing enough to take out a SL base), and then pulling targets in range for a KO/shadow rez. And the unit at risk, the monk, is itself pretty unkillable with 1200 and 20% resist, and does not need to have a sword equipped.
I think we can all be in agreement that SL's turtling ability is second only to DW - you basically never get a good trade out of SL if SL is turtled up. I'm not sure that making a turtle a BETTER idea is a good one. We should be focusing instead on how to get SL to move out of the turtle and be effective.
Currently, the issue is that excepting poisoners, SL cannot move units up and take significant ground (i.e. "bad at attacking"). Once forced into the back, SL is easily picked apart with ranged splash (I am still unconvinced that DE has an advantage over SL). Solving this issue by turning it around and bringing the enemy to the turtle is unhelpful to this problem as 1) turtle breakers don't care, just lob moar grenades and 2) teams that have trouble breaking turtles.. have it even worse now, as turtling is now a offensive as well as defensive strategy.
Oh it is here too. Good.
Because it combines attack and movement in one 1 ap, and because it is fun:
Mmm. What happens if the monk hits twice? Edit: I just read JibbyJackJoe's sequence.
How is it crazy imbalanced? I love when people post without adding anything to the conversation.
You're telling me that the weakest team can't have an action that moves an enemy one space closer, while simultaneously putting the monk deeper into enemy territory. It would be the weakest form of movement available! You'll have a difficult time convincing people of that. The monk is strong, but he's not the strongest defensive player around. Currently, I find him the weakest unit on the team. Most people agree that the shaolin are at the bottom of the pecking order. A movement boost for monk won't, in my opinion, be enough of a buff to make them fun to play. We can tinker with HP, or resistances, or movement - but do any of those help the shaolin do what they're supposed to do?
@ tabby - so what's wrong with a team being good at something? Dwarves are already awesome at turtling. Which is why shaolin can't really dent them. They turtle and splash aoe that can't effectively be healed. The shaolin isn't going to be fantastic at turtling having the monk move one unit one space closer, in my opinion. They'll be better at it, but still second to the dwarves.
You should have clicked on the link, it's a good one. ;)
I don't think you got the essense of my post - I agree that the change (monk switching) would make SL better overall. I disagree that it is the appropriate way to make SL better, because:
1. It makes SL's good matchups better and
2. Doesn't make SL's bad matchups better.
Teams which can't crack a SL turtle (DE) now have to stay 1 more tile out of range of the turtle. Teams which can splash the heck out of the SL turtle (DW, TF2) still don't care. Boosting SL by making their good matchups easier is bad balance, IMO.
The matchup that owns the shaolin is the dwarves. TF2 is most likely getting a heavy nerf bat, so I won't comment there.
You have two teams that want to turtle somewhat until later in the game. Thats where the difference lies. Dwarves move up and splash splash splash, shaolin move up and want to 1-2-3 KO, hopefully resurrecting and enemy in the process. I foresee paladin aura staking being removed, or have diminished values when stacked to shave a bit of their OPness. So, you have your grenadier surrounded by two paladins and is bubbled. You can with the proposed monk boost, move in and separate off a paladin which starts the combo, apply 1 or 2 more combo points and hopefully knock her out. Then, your monk is in the way of a heal, so they have to move out of the turtle to heal, or risk losing the unit. I'd gladly trade a monk for a paladin. And chances are that you swapped into a square adjacent to the grenadier, so he'll hit like a wet noodle unless he moves, which also breaks the formation.
We could just do numbers instead, but numbers don't help the team goal out very much. They don't make shaolin more shaolin.
All of this is also dependent on the monks base movement getting bumped to 3. I really do feel like these two buffs will accomplish what this team needs to be competitive.
Why wouldn't the grenadier just move forward 2 squares, lob lob lob, retreat 2 squares? No way a taoist can keep up with that splash damage. How would your monkswap deal with a unit retreating 2 squares instead of standing 1 square just out of your SL pack's reach? Or moving to the side up or down away from your SL pack, for that matter.
Nothing stops him from 2lobs then backing off. Maybe it's time for demo man to drop to 2range and grenadier too? That much range with that much net damage seems a tad unfair
monk goes to the grenadier. And hits the grenadier to apply the debuff (just leave the monk there, applying the debuff and applying pressure is enoug, if the dwarf wants to KO the monk it uses his turn more or less). With the grenadiers hp reduced (burst method), you can on the next turn attack with the posioner to apply debuff, use dragon + bamboo and hes dead (or just move in for the stomp or shadow in range). With this method you can kill 2 of dwarves 3 "Big Three". With 1monk left and X poisoners you can still apply the debuffs to the grenadier. So even with bubble and auras hes doomd to die sooner or later since -40% resistance and -25% health loss is harsh. If you dont want him to die you will need to be really careful. So there are ways for them to figth aura stacked grenadiers with bubble support.
Just sacrificing the monk to hit the "Big Three" and "gain" a turn is a shot. While its true shaolin is still lacking they aint worthless.
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I would say shaolin turtles not because they want to but because they don't have enough AP/health/damage/resistance to act otherwise
Outside of the shadow they flat out don't have the ap to do anything but turtle.
Just wanted to add that in my SL games I usually end up on the defensive against skilled opposition that knows how to place their units for excellent board position. If board position is not favorable for them I will play more aggressively, usually resulting in a crystal rush. Not always successful but I manage a few wins that way.
"turtling" also not always successful but leads to drawn out matches.
This so called MONK SWAP I keep reading about would be awesome. Especially if range 3 move Monk. Lastly the windblade adjust to 100/50/50 for damage symmetry would be a balance adjustment that I would welcome.
Monk Swap would make SL more fun to play and add to the team combo trait. Monky combos - make it happen Robot.
Hero Academy: johnjanitor