High Score Videos
Here's my The West Wing 1st place (I think) run. 7.6M.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Pz_-7_f0M
Added. Solid run. :)
Interesting that you could get the grinder combo point on some occasions.
The reason I had titled this :
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/920125665126185676/AF211F52ACDF4465F6DD20B232DEB03EA747F23E/
"no good" was that after two runs with not a single 13x (no smash attempts so as to not muddy the results), it seemed the small space between the grinder and void wall was enough to cancel that combo point.
From your run, it would appear that you can get it, but only on heavy orcs.
The small gap is playing into the size of the orc. The larger orcs have a bigger hit box which keeps them in the grinder. The smaller orcs don't.
Unusual double post.
Added. Solid run. :)
Interesting that you could get the grinder combo point on some occasions.
The reason I had titled this :
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/920125665126185676/AF211F52ACDF4465F6DD20B232DEB03EA747F23E/
"no good" was that after two runs with not a single 13x (no smash attempts so as to not muddy the results), it seemed the small space between the grinder and void wall was enough to cancel that combo point.
From your run, it would appear that you can get it, but only on heavy orcs.
Interesting. Is that scorcher placement effective?
Yes it works. Just don't aim it downwards.
Yes it works. Just don't aim it downwards.
Right, I guess I was more asking if the scorcher would obstruct the flight path of the orcs coming off the push trap.
I should have been more specific.
Well, by no means my highest scoring run of Servant Entrance. However, I believe this is the highest scoring run on video so thought I would post it up anyway. This strategy can get you anywhere between 10 and 22 million depending on your execution. Did manage to squeeze in an x14 with the smash!
Servant Entrance - Warmage - Story Mode
nice video!
I think you could improve this strat a little if you optimize the filter. the ogre on wave 4 passes the place you put up the 4 grinders, so you need to set it up until wave 4. the ogre on wave 5 can be redirected with 4 baricades to go up there and come back down the middle. I usually sell these baricades again and only put them back in for the last 2 ogres on wave 9. this way you could use the unupgraded vampire gauntlets, or at least a lower level of them, as you wouldn't need to deal with ogres by yourself. 1 or 2 levels might still be useful, as i ran into jamming issues on the later waves. could save some good combos on the light orcs at the start.
If you are short of coin try to get a good killstreak on the first wave. I think I managed to get a 17 streak going. this will give you about 100 extra, and if you immobilize the gnoll at the same time, you can drag him into the killbox afterwards to save his coin as well. the few 6x on the kobolds dont really matter scorewise
What I do to filter out the ogres is just immobilise the ogre in the grinder with the gauntlets. Works pretty well.
I mostly don't pay enough attention to do that consistently, so I went for a more automated setup to prevent me from getting really mad at myself when I screw up my run like that. I already get backstabbed by the 2nd gnoll on wave 5 more often than i'd like to, because he likes to chill on some pylon and comes right at me, when I forgot about him for a moment :)
Yeah that gnoll used to make me fail so many runs.
Added, although the spam filter tends to suspend more edits than it's letting though these days and seems to particularly enjoy bullying the "Lastest Entries" post. :(
I should hopefully have a few videos up about this map later this week, so my comments will be in there. ;)
nice video!
I think you could improve this strat a little if you optimize the filter. the ogre on wave 4 passes the place you put up the 4 grinders, so you need to set it up until wave 4. the ogre on wave 5 can be redirected with 4 baricades to go up there and come back down the middle. I usually sell these baricades again and only put them back in for the last 2 ogres on wave 9. this way you could use the unupgraded vampire gauntlets, or at least a lower level of them, as you wouldn't need to deal with ogres by yourself. 1 or 2 levels might still be useful, as i ran into jamming issues on the later waves. could save some good combos on the light orcs at the start.
If you are short of coin try to get a good killstreak on the first wave. I think I managed to get a 17 streak going. this will give you about 100 extra, and if you immobilize the gnoll at the same time, you can drag him into the killbox afterwards to save his coin as well. the few 6x on the kobolds dont really matter scorewise
Great idea with the redirecting traffic on the wave 5 ogre. Besides my little oversight in wave 4, I havent really had much of a problem with the filtering on this map as it stands. That is an approach I would add in to endless for sure, but not really needed for story mode. As I mentioned before, this was not the best execution of the run, but I have done it too many times already to bother rerecording it. I would have liked to provide a higher scoring vid, but just couldnt do it again. ( The recent talk of no more content has shifted my focus a bit )
This is the exact strat that Cheetah and I used for the #1 coop spot and I am pretty sure its what Cheetah used for the #1 solo spot. I am sure Wyatan will have some more insight into this map with his coming video. However, this is the strat. Depending on execution, it can vary greatly. I see that Wyatan has edged me out of the #2 spot, so im excited to see what approach you took on this map.
Rogotin has put together an interesting twist on Servant Entrance involving a very unpopular Warmage :) Got 10 mil using his strat on my first attempt. It would be nice to see the Warmage make the first page again!
Went to play a little tennis with Nananea today over at the Stairs of Doom. Went well enough, new #1 high score!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZqCUaJX5bk
Nice run, guys. :)
Being added.
Coupla observations :
- There was a skull at one of the entrances : guess Nananea spotted it but didn't tell coz it could only be grabbed with the windbelt. ;)
- The orc you tried to get a smash and Jar of Ghosts full combo at the end of a wave but didn't seem to yield anything ? I bet it was a resurrected orcs. Those don't yield combos. Just typical.
- Shamen should probably be eliminated ASAP because not only do rezzed orcs give you false hopes, but they get revived in your killbox and that has a huge potential for screwing up trap sync.
- Not a huge fan of multiple sequence initializer killboxes. I would have gone for a single Steam Vent. Because orcs land on multiple tiles, so the first group up triggers multiple springs, and when a second group comes up close behind, they're left standing in your killbox... and again screw it up.
Now that run reminds me that I still have to fine-tune and show my new setup for this map, although it most likely wouldn't work on Endless mode. Duvalon, just before he left on a business trip, had also dramatically improved on his setup. So stay tuned, there's more coming. :)
Nice run, guys. :)
Being added.
Coupla observations :
Now that run reminds me that I still have to fine-tune and show my new setup for this map, although it most likely wouldn't work on Endless mode. Duvalon, just before he left on a business trip, had also dramatically improved on his setup. So stay tuned, there's more coming. :)
Yup, have been waiting patiently since you guys were discussing the new strat in the other thread. I have been debating on a dual killbox strat for coop on this map, just havent made any solid attempts yet.
I'll get to it... once I'm done with Servant Entrance. ;)
Oh and I forgot to mention : Nananea's placement suggestion (on the bridge above the stairs) definitely deserves consideration. If windbelting mobs back into the killbox efficiently is indeed achievable from that vantage point, that would indeed be the best way of handling gnolls... since without a valid target, they simply wouldn't spawn at all !
Hey Wyatan! This is my first post here, and since I'm all new to this game (only had it for about a month), I'm not quite sure where to begin. I've watched your videos a lot, and also Juicebags videos, nananeas, freyedeggs and rogotins, and I think I've finally gotten things to work. I just made it to the top 10 on Twin Halls, taking the 9th place. The thing is that my set-up is different from your video posted here, and I'm curious to see if mine can be improved upon to score about as high as yours.
First round I set up similarily to yours. Push to web, STEAM, acid-sprayer then scorcher and grinder. On second round I'll sell this set-up, close the path off and go over to the other side. The reason for that is that the other side - although it looks the same - does not block the placement of wall-traps the same way. This allows me to have a steam to acid-sprayer, push then scorch and grinder. Also I get to remove the springtrap and replace it with the fear-trinket which I find much more reliable.
I believe this set-up is better in terms of reliable high combos. What I have trouble with is money-flow and over-flow of orcs and simply taking too much damage.
Set-up 2: Here
Later we will have in filtering, more spinners and two scorchers at landing for rest-orcs to be dealt with. I'm still only able to get 13x with this, but a couple of it. I'm losing quite a lot of points to orcs entering the rift in the early rounds. :/
Edit: Trouble with links.
Nice, it's good that people experiment with new ideas. :)
Nicely spotted on the dissymetry, and interesting idea ! I'd have to give it a try or see it in action to comment further.
Just one thing on your round 1 setup : I don't think that's an efficient spot for the scorcher since most orcs would die in the grinder before it triggers.
I'd also been experimenting with a new setup on that map that got me to about 13-14M, but more on that later (well, maybe).
It's one of those maps where we have both extremes in terms of orcs : a lot of squishies (light orcs, crossbows), a lot of toughies. Finding the perfect balance is the key : musn't kill the squishies too early, but mustn't have underkill and jamming when the toughies come along. Actually having two setups and using the proper one for the proper wave might be the key to pushing scores even further on that map.
Ok ... I'm out of place commenting on a "High Score" thread, but I noticed on King of the Hill that the broken AI pathfinding can be fixed a bit with the placement of barracade #2.
Without a video this might be difficult to explain but everyone seems to come up with the idea of barracading off one of the stairs in such a way that it makes them go down the long hall. The problem I had early on is that the #2 barracade (and I'm numbering from the part that should touch a wall or the edge of the stairs or something that allows you to begin to kite them) I had placed back against the rift. I lost the pathfinding problem when I moved it up out against the stairs, so that it diagonally touched barracade #3. So esentially barracades #1 and #2 block the entire top of that stair case by 2/3rds, which pushes everything over and doesn't leave a big area at the top of the stairs for them to get caught in. I had almost no problems with them attacking the barracades after I did this. Sorry if this doesn't come across well without video or pictures.
Try it with the barracade up next to the rift for a few waves, and then move it out to the stairs and see if you don't notice the difference.
This probably isn't a revelation to anyone, but just in case someone was still struggling with this I thought I'd share. For me this is bittersweet as I think I had grown used to the broken pathfinding and was using it to buy time because when they started bee-lining to the rift I struggled at first with the timings.
Set-up 1: Here and here
Set-up 2: Here
Later we will have in filtering, more spinners and two scorchers at landing for rest-orcs to be dealt with. I'm still only able to get 13x with this, but a couple of it. I'm losing quite a lot of points to orcs entering the rift in the early rounds. :/
Edit: Trouble with links.
Your problem with lights may be excessive wind belting. You'll find they do take damage when being blown back into the corner and working web spinners into the mix will help with that. Also some clever pathing on the outside of your killbox can help prevent overkill of your controling the pack. Duvalon and I spent many hours at first attempting to repath whatever orcs slipped through to prevent excessive damage from the blow back.
Advanced Barricades may help in this instance and a couple of web spinners well off the beaten path to catch stragglers and stop the overkill.
Thanks for the replies, guys! And you're both definetly right. That scorcher-placement was silly, as it fits neatly right where the acid-sprayer is. The combo's are a lot more frequent now, although I haven't been able to survive for an entire run yet, because the set-up seems to be way too expensive. But I think it'll be possible, just need to practice it.
Added Juicebags' King of the Hill and Finale runs.
Finale
Even more than the scorcher's placement, I believe it was your own placement that hurt you. Most of the time, when shooting at the orcs with the vamps, you were retreating behind the scorcher... which blocked a lot of your shots.
Same happened to me on Twin Halls : when I learnt to move sideways for the shooting instead of backwards, I gained 2-3M on the final score.
King of the Hill
Interesting take... but I'm not sold that this is the winning strategy. :P
First, the killbox itself.
Unless there's no alternative or you're called Cheetah, I tend to consider Steam to Push setups as inferior (to the Push to Steam setups for instance).
- Push trap sometimes misses
- Scorcher sometimes misses
- Overkill : orcs burn longer before hitting the grinder
- Underkill : orcs only go down through the grinder, instead of up then down
- Way harder to apply the vamp's combo point
In addition, here, since your ideal placement is facing the push trap, orcs are right in your face and you have to use the windbelt too often or retreat out of position.
Then, ressource management.
You keep lacking for funds... when they're at your disposal !
As I've explained in my video, the waves always follow the same pattern.
Wave 1 comes from the "right" (mainly) and the left : that's when you need your "killer killbox" strong and some filtering on the left. No filtering needed at all at the back.
Wave 2 comes from the left (mainly) and the back : sell off your killer killbox, buff up the left-side filter, put up some filtering for the back.
Wave 3 comes exclusively from the back : sell off the left-side filter and buff up the back filter.
Cleanse, rinse, repeat until you're set.
For instance, at the start of wave 9 you reinforced the killer killbox... when nothing was coming up to it, and you had no filter in place for the trolls and elementals coming up from the back.
I guess someone needs to mix my ressource management with your killbox, so we can get a pure killbox comparison run. ;)
Also, interesting find about the top-of-the-stairs barricade placement, and ballsy barricading for the early waves (although it's actually only needed for wave 1 : could have saved you some pain...) !
That said, it was good to see some high scoring runs again . Thanks for sharing. :)
Great King of Hill video Juiced!
I am glad someone was able to explain on video what I was saying above in post #22 (this thread) about that second barricade.
I don't have a video, so it may not belong here, but I did get a #7 ranking on Crunch (warmage) without the use of barricades.
The no barricades challenge was something jawolfman had suggested and I was pleased to see I could get a top 10 score without it.
I don't have any video, but I show my score and my killboxes in this post.
Added Juicebags' run on The Squeeze.
There are basically three minor variants for the killbox :
- The one Juicebags' shown with the barricade behind the Spring Trap and Steam Trap.
- The one I've shown (iirc) with a second Spring Trap instead of the barricade.
- Cheetah's where the Push Trap is moved a half-tile to the left so that it faces the Spring Trap.
I've actually had very similar results with all three.
Added Juicebag's run on The Arena.
The Spike Wall setup is indeed the way to go on co-op (and probably Nightmare). That's how Cheeath and I got first place (Spike Wall setup was his idea).
But as you mentioned, on Warmage solo, there are mainly squishies, and those don't really agree with that kind of setup...
Also added the first part of a series dedicated to revisiting Servant Entrance with a new setup.
It's actually two months old (geez, already ?). Wanted to show that setup once I had nailed first place on Warmage, Nightmare, and Endless to prove its efficiency.
I did get 1st place on Warmage and Nightmare, but then Cheetah improved his already mighty 23.8 score to 26.9 (that's 5M more than everybody else with the "traditional" setup !!). I had started working on a final version of the setup when I got majorly sidetracked into Torchlight 2, and I kept postponing the release.
Well, that final version will have to wait, and maybe one of you guys will get there first. :)
But in the meantime, I got round to proving the setup on Endless this week-end, so I'm belatedly releasing it.
Very interesting set up. I love that map, maybe this will be a solid reason to revisit it.
Added.
Good run, and nice to see Nananea in some high scoring action. :)
And a 4-skull run ? Impressive. Guess that's what you get for inviting the skull ninja to the party, lol.
Now :
- Grinder should be fully upgraded. Description is poorly worded : upgrades mean the grinder does more damage before jamming up. They don't actually increase the damage output. Main upgrades = grinder stays unjammed longer, while unique upgrade = grinder unjams quicker.
- Duvalon told me the Slow from Tar and Web Spinner don't stack up. Haven't tested it, but I'd tend to believe him. Means you don't have to spam the Web Spinners when Tar is available. The one spot I'd have set one up is up against the wall, between the Acid Sprayer and the Grinder : that one would be garanteed to always activate in sequence.
- Was about to say you can save coin by placing Tar every other tile only at the filters... but Nananea got there first. ;)
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