Council vs tf2: extremely lopsided
ParaGoombaSlayer, your main point is well-taken and previously discussed -- the fragile medics are TF2's Achilles heel. However, your other observations suggest to me that you really haven't played much in the way of strong Council opposition. For example, you kinda lost me here:
3.) Council players like to pile their upgrades upon the Knight, which wastes upgrades and AP.
I've played some of the best Council players we've got around these parts, and none of them waste upgrades on Knights. Situationally it may be valuable to throw a shield and/or helm on one to hold a crucial tile, but in general every strong CL player knows that mods are best used to enhance their primary damage dealers (which, against TF2, should generally be the wizard).
But yes, I think we all also agree that other teams cannot afford to simply trade units with TF2. That is where TF2s squishiness and unit-heavy deck has to be exploited by looking for multiple kills wherever possible.
I believe Mr. 70-Wins needs a pointed demonstration from one of our resident CL capable Forumites.
I'd volunteer but play CL the least and as TF not at all (don't own); and we all know how my preciousness Tribe fair against TF... You think TF vs. CL is lopsided? Tribe is plain handicapped there.
Knights are, and always have been, meat buckets. They're there to block damage and trade when stomping. If you've been playing Counil who pile upgrades unto them then you're not playing anyone worth drawing conclusions about game balence from.
Are you the nimh who used to make videos on ytube?
OnT: good council players would bend me over and pound me relentlessly while I play tf2. I know this as it happened just yesterday. Just try to improve and learn stuff like: if mr tf2 says you can't have a tile and sticks a sniper there to bring the point home, respect his opinion. If mr tf2 has a spy close to a unit you want to stomp, make sure that it is a trade you are willing to make. If there is a heavy nearby don't let him hit 3 people. Use inferno wisely
Playing with the CL against TF2 is stupid. All they have to do is go agressive from the start... Either i get very lucky with the initial set and go for crystals before they settle or im screwed as i cant camp and wait for them as their AOE is very good. Simply frustrating not being able to do anything.
So im quiting the league for now! Getting kicked since round 2 or 3 till the end of every game. Very frustrating.
Playing with the CL against TF2 is stupid. All they have to do is go agressive from the start... Either i get very lucky with the initial set and go for crystals before they settle or im screwed as i cant camp and wait for them as their AOE is very good. Simply frustrating not being able to do anything.
So im quiting the league for now! Getting kicked since round 2 or 3 till the end of every game. Very frustrating.
It is known that this is not an equal match-up; the record in League play is 32-56. If you are trying to squeeze every win and every rating point out of your League experience, than Council (all you play in the League) is a poor choice. That would probably be true for anyone, even Trip.
We have the capability to get to near perfect balance, but Robot doesnt seem willing to engage us in a debate about the least impactful ways to do it. Trip's comprehensive proposal, involving modest nerfts to Dwarves and TF2, and a tweak of Tribe, is in my opinion the best way.
Perhaps we should start a petition with a set of balance changes. We weaken ourselves by endless debate -- we need to get behind a set of proposed changes to have any hope that Robot will take it seriously.
I think you are drastically understating the effectiveness of modded wizards in this matchup. Forget about swording your archers and ninja -- it's generally overkill. Try going full wizard and see how things go.
I agree.
I dont like to play random games as 90% of them suck. I play in the league because i can find good opps. I play only with the council because...well...because i like them better. Dont think they are worse or better than the DE, DW or Tribe. Even against the mighty DE if you're patient enough you can beat a good player with the CL. But TF2 is a different story...even with full upgraded wizards i would have to be very lucky to make a difference. And remember that wizards are simply the worst @ AOE of the entire game.
The reason i like this game is because your success don't depend on luck but on your skills. In the end of every game you can blame luck but you know you could have done something different. But when you feel that you have to be lucky to win a game...well...then there's no point in playing for me. Im not crying or saying ill never play again... just going for a walk...lol
I thought witches were the worst AoE of the game?
Windblade takes that title. :(
TF beats Council for a few reasons. This is coming from someone who has won 70 games so far, all with TF2.
1.) Knights suck. I don't care how hard they are to kill, because I'll just ignore their useless 200 melee damage knock back attacks. That's 1/4th of Council that's complete garbage right there.
2.) Since Knights are garbage, Council effectively has 10 units. TF2 has 18.
3.) Council players like to pile their upgrades upon the Knight, which wastes upgrades and AP.
4.) I outnumber you, STOP trading your more valuable units for my dime a dozen ones, especially Engineers or Scouts. Go for my Medics. Furthermore, TF generally wins out in a trade unless I lose a Medic.
Like Trip said, in this matchup fully buffed wizards are more dangerous than archers. Also, if you're going for a TKO, you're playing to TF2's strenghts, so keep that in mind.
With council I aim for a crystal win but if you can kill a medic and/or an engineer, you can win by TKO. I've also had some good results with ninja bombs for taking out engineers and medics. TF2 is a lot easier to defeat without their engineer upgrades.
Do NOT do this. When one of my Engineers dies I do not care one bit becuase I have already upgraded my power units on the board and I'll have a second Engineer in reserve. When you Council players trade Archers or Wizards to kill my Engineer you've wasted your turn and your unit, which helps me win attrition wise.
Go for my Medics. You take those out I'm done unless I'm on the verge of a crystal win.