CALDERA - Barriers - Orc Smashing Bug?
Anyone else experience random barrier smashing on Caldera? I've done a websearch and see comments here and there - also watched the youtube vid and it looks,like (even though time skipping) that the owner had to replace barriers too. I prob do a standard block off 3 sides but I also route the open side facing stairs so those guys have to walk around the entire complex. It just seems like they target my opposite open - left side barricades. I've used triple barricades with double brimstones in front and they just beat it down until I cant afford to replace them. I'm putting double row brim at every entry to kill sappers when they spawn.
My last run at wav 38 with me standing in a empty killbox a troll just ran to to barriers instead of following the path (and the other orcs) - In the Caldera 55+ vid it seem the author had to replace these rear left side barriers often too. He had the advantage of fighting on the floor and could help defend them. (he didnt reroute the front facing door and I do - farthest path if rerouted) - I like my system since most walk thru 2 killboxes before hitting a rift stair access.
I'm gonna try to grind it out just to 5 skull it then NEVER solo (havent tried coop) it again. Anyone else seen this?
nice vid. my only barriers are on the floor. (and 2 upstairs to block the crosswalks) but seems you experienced some random smashing on that board too. I like your dummy barrier/grinder combo. I'll give that a shot and see if it gets me over the hump.
UPDATE: I setup your dummy barrier/grinder combo and in wave 2 a little green orc wouldnt stop until he smashed the barrs. I had two setup side by side and he went ham until both barrs were dead. he went from one to the other. was weird because the farthest barr in the corner hadnt crossed his path yet - he seeked it out. working...
CONFIRMED: Not sappers. Its the lowest pawn - the lil green men. Across from my killbox I can see corner barrier and its guys that should walk right past it. I can understand sappers seeking them out but this has to be broken logic. I cant think of why they would attack a barrier that not blocking ANYTHING and not even in their path but they attack it until its gone. obvious bug.
I mention that in my Caldera videos as well (check the High Score Videos topic).
Basically, that barricading setup (forcing mobs all around the map to a single access to the rift) pushes the pathfinding to its limits. You'll get the same thing on other maps with such "advanced" barricade setups, like Finale, Corridors or Mirror Image for instance. It produces some weird behaviours like orcs turning tail as soon as they get hit... and makes them highly susceptible to a barricade bashing frenzy.
On Caldera in particular I noticed that any barricade in the opposite map section from your killbox was bound to get attacked by orcs, even if it wasn't blocking their path at all. That's why for that section I set the dummy barricade on the bridge.
@Wyatan: EXACTLY!! Almost every level I'd have orcs that would try to cross the map but when then get to the other side they turn around and just go back and forth. I was actually using it as a "GO" break and not killing the last zig zagger until I ran around the map doing chores. When a moutain troll did it it SUCKED!! He was in the middle of the map nowhere near my killboxes that I needed to kill him (since they self-heal). In the end I had to lure him to my barricades and let him smash them to get past a grinder I put at the bottom of the steps and barricaded in (leaving 1 square spot for access). Every time the grinder hit him he would turn around so I had to let him kill the barrs to have room to get past it.
Initially, I thought the reason for random barricade attacking was because orcs would all be funneled into a single path, pushing each other slightly, eventually pushing one INTO the barricade and thinking its stuck, attacking it to get free.
However, I quickly put that away as I've seen lone enemies go for the barricade as soon as they see it, so..
..The only reason I can see is, since not all enemies go for the same angle at a rift (for example, some will enter a rift directly from the front, or on the right, left of it), the AI thinks one of its path is blocked compared to where it's currently sitting, and so starts attacking.
Like all other bugs in the game, they're only highlighted in certain situations to the point where it can be nearly game breaking, but for some reason is not fixed.
Initially, I thought the reason for random barricade attacking was because orcs would all be funneled into a single path, pushing each other slightly, eventually pushing one INTO the barricade and thinking its stuck, attacking it to get free.
However, I quickly put that away as I've seen lone enemies go for the barricade as soon as they see it, so..
..The only reason I can see is, since not all enemies go for the same angle at a rift (for example, some will enter a rift directly from the front, or on the right, left of it), the AI thinks one of its path is blocked compared to where it's currently sitting, and so starts attacking.
Like all other bugs in the game, they're only highlighted in certain situations to the point where it can be nearly game breaking, but for some reason is not fixed.
Robot have been aware of this bug for months now and have pretty much said that they won't fix it. There was a forum post a while ago by someone from Robot, saying they were aware of the bug, but they 'liked it', because it 'kept you on your toes' and other rubbish like that, so they'd keep it in. A shitstorm ensued, but the bug remains today.
Wow, this is pathetic, then.
I suppose they also love how crossbow bolts go through light orcs while they're moving or how it refuses to headshot even frozen targets depending on your angle / position to make sure the weapon isn't too powerful for room cleaning too?
A bug being a feature.. Jesus H. Christ this is the epitomy of bad design.
WOW!! Broken pathing logic is a "FEATURE"!? How does that keep me on my toes when maps that were obviously designed to NEED barriers wont allow you to reliably use them? It doesnt keep me on my toes it'll keep me off those maps!! Sheeesh....
Here's the offending thread:
http://www.robotentertainment.com/forum/topic/Orcs-and-Barricades
The specific paragraph I was referring to (I didn't remember the quotes perfectly):
"First, you should understand the barricade is not really intended to be a complete “fire and forget” kind of trap. Gnolls run right over them, sappers attack them with single minded ferocity, and occasionally.. seemingly at random, orcs just decide to tear them up. We kind of like that, and we want you to pay a bit of attention to barricades, just to spice things up and make them interesting for you. "
Other than Robot's extremely annoying decision to keep the bug and call it a 'feature', the post is actually quite good. It probably will help explain the problems you're having.
There are several ways around it. And the alternative (breaking the game completely) is far worse than leaving the 'bug' to stay. It was left as an anti - abuse mechanism. Along with the 30 second stun death. I'm not going to get into an extended argument again because it's all posted in that thread and some people really don't understand cause they weren't here at the end of OMD1 when the entire thing went belly up.
Also Bragdras you need a muzzle or something. You're throwing around insults quite often and I'm not sure what your beef is but for an indie game you've got quite the opinion.
Everyone needs to chill out some. The Dev's spend their time reading the forums and listening to the people. That's not a call for every bug in the game to be reason to call anoying 'pathetic' and 'how could they have possibly missed this how stupid'. Each upgrade effects every user and can't be made lightly. Then there's time investment and testing; it's amazing an indie game got this much love to begin with. Maybe rather than attempting to ram it down peoples throats just post it and relax.
They aren't insults, I often emphasizes / amplify a post to make it obvious as of my opinion on it, but it's certainly not an insult thrown at the devs, I don't know how else I could describe something like that, yes, it's an indie game, and props to Robot Entertainment for having so few flaws and bugs, but the problems is that those particular flaws and bugs range from inconvenience to almost game breaking.
Everyone needs to chill out some. The Dev's spend their time reading the forums and listening to the people. That's not a call for every bug in the game to be reason to call anoying 'pathetic' and 'how could they have possibly missed this how stupid'. Each upgrade effects every user and can't be made lightly. Then there's time investment and testing; it's amazing an indie game got this much love to begin with. Maybe rather than attempting to ram it down peoples throats just post it and relax.
I apologize but being an indie developper doesn't automatically mean you should leave bugs that were present since the first game in, but in this case, it hasn't just not been fixed, it's been visibly worsened in OMD2.
And on a side note; there isn't a whole lot of posts to make it known that they're reading the forums often.
I have had some barricade smashers on that map but never down by the rift. Are the sappers getting to it? They have a 2 tile range on their explosion. I just barricaded like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVY7nCb99nE
The only barricade smashing problems I had were up at the killbox. Good luck!
Check out my Youtube channel for tons of OMD2 videos, from high scoring to endless mode survival runs and tutorials!
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrJuicebags